Right? Right
That’s great, it starts with an “earthquake,” (probably) birds and (possibly) snakes, (probably not) an aeroplane. David Cahill is not afraid. It’s the end of the pro-development era in Ann Arbor.
In case anyone was wondering, we feel fine.
This may mark the end of the pro-development era in Ann Arbor. Or more exactly, as Winston Churchill said after the defeat of the Afrika Korps in 1942: “Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.â€
Walkable cities with viable local businesses and affordable housing are *so* Third Reich.
posted by Anna on February 6th, 2008 at 3:15 pmGrow or die, Ann Arbor.
Oh, wait, you’re not interested in growing?
posted by js on February 6th, 2008 at 3:38 pmThat is a good question JS, you are on to something. Quite a few people in A2 don’t seem to want the city to grow.
I was sitting in on a UM class (B School) the other day where the mayor was speaking and someone asked why so many people opposed developments and he gave an answer I had not heard before. “A lot of people in Ann Arbor want the city to prosper but they don’t really want it to grow.”
That about sums it up. It appears to me that there is a professional corps of people who protest just about any development.
posted by Dustin on February 6th, 2008 at 4:22 pmWow, 3 out of 4 commenters don’t even live in A2 anymore!
posted by (former) OFWinsurgent on February 6th, 2008 at 5:00 pmI’ll make it 4 out of 5.
“A lot of people in Ann Arbor want the city to prosper but they don’t really want it to grow.â€
That’s possibly the most succinct explanation of “how gentrification happens” that I’ve ever heard.
posted by Murph on February 6th, 2008 at 5:49 pmLet’s beat this dead horse again.
I hear people say that the only compelling reason for Ann Arbor to grow, is so it will not die?
That seems to be the prediction of some people and appears to be their only “reason” for overstuffed and unsustainable development. IIRC, the city added about 2,000 people in the last decade and compared to the rest of the region, yet A2 seems to have prospered in spite of what some people believe is a lack of development.
There have been two major building booms in A2 in the last 25 or so years. The last one began in the early 90’s and lasted for almost 10 years (ending pretty much at 9/11/01). There was a 2 year lull between ‘90 & ‘92 (recession) and the previous boom was about 8 years in length prior to 1990. Those boom/bust periods roughly mirrored the national economy. Ann Arbor prospered, yet did not add a lot of population, probably due to the transient nature of many of the residents, students and young professionals.
For those of you who were here and are able to comprehend how much development has actually happened during the last 10, 20 and 30 years you might be surprised. I was here and actively involved in much of the construction. In my time here, there has been quite a bit of development, most of it on the edges, but still a fair amount of it in the city limits.
If anyone here (is old or observant enough to remember) is able to take a historical view, there has been quite bit of development in the city, just not a lot of population growth. Washtenaw Ave was two lane when I moved here in 1972. Huron Parkway was not completed across the river to Plymouth Rd until the early 70’s. Briarwood Mall was a fallow field until about the same time. The apartment and condo sprawl (not the townships) around Briarwood did not happen for several years after the Mall was built. The majority of the commercial construction around B’wood, including Boardwalk and Eisenhower (other than 700 E Eisenhower and the old Bechtel bldg now owned by UM) happened in the last 12 years. The Northeast residential development (Plymouth/Green Huron Parkway) occurred in the last 12 years. Pfizer did all of their construction in the last 6 years before they closed. In those same periods, 301 E Liberty, 101 N Main, Sloane Plaza, the ill fated Tally Hall, (now the Washington St parking structure) and a couple of parking structures were built downtown. The old hotel on 4th ave was converted to apartments. The Armory and S 4th Ave were remade by Ed Shaffran. 350 S Main was built about 12 years ago. Before Ashley Mews and the commercial hi rise (Syndeco) was built there was a big unfilled hole in the ground on that site for about 5 years from a busted commercial development. commercial growth on Washtenaw Ave exploded, Plymouth Road did the same. U Hospital and the U grew exponentially. Now there’s Ashley Terrace and other high rise residential and mixed use buildings due to come out of the ground, in downtown no less, in the next several years as the economy improves. To me, that sounds like quite a bit of development. Maybe it’s not the kind you want or care for, but it’s the developers and the free market that decides what is economically feasible to build and the residents get a say in what’s best for the city.
Maybe you young un’s, because of your lack of historical perspective, have not or are incapable of seeing this. Maybe you haven’t lived here (or anywhere for that matter) long enough to put any of this into perspective.
From my point of view, the problem is not the lack of development that’s the problem, it’s the unsustainable development that occurs from the boom/bust nature of our economy.
I think Hieftje’s comment to be a non-judgmental statement of fact and proves my point. It’s not necessary for Ann Arbor to grow so it can prosper. Must the city grow to prosper? That point has been disproved. And whose and what kind prosperity are we talking about? There’s more to prosperity than the almighty dollar.
posted by mucho gusto on February 6th, 2008 at 6:25 pmBreaking into full song lyrics, I see, aaio.
Maybe you can get this blog featured on MTV or something… Or would that be the end of your anonymity as you know it?
posted by David Boyle on February 6th, 2008 at 7:37 pmI actually want Ann Arbor to fail. I want to see it burn. Epic song btw.
posted by James on February 6th, 2008 at 7:56 pmI can’t figure this town out, except to think that the current bourgeoisie doesn’t want any new burghers to get to build anything, because that would force them to lower their outlandish commercial rents, stop jack-handling small businesses and deal with them fairly, and cease raping U-M student’s families for luxury rents for slum housing. And this lot trips merrily along with the NIMBYs who wish for a return to 1975, when downtown was dead and nobody bothered them with all that noise and haste.
Oh, wait, I just did figure this town out.
Expect to see more of this, if rents don’t become more realistic through increasing the supply of commercial space downtown:
http://blog.mlive.com/annarbornews/2008/02/ann_arbor_brewpub_to_split_for.html
“Ann Arbor brewpub to split for Denver”
And with it, jobs.
-A-
posted by AGB on February 6th, 2008 at 10:01 pmSimplistic analysis in regards to labeling groups as NIMBYs is just too easy. Some developments make sense, and some don’t. Each needs to be analyzed on its own.
posted by Bo Knew on February 6th, 2008 at 10:20 pmMuch of this discussion (and the underlying premise for several others on aaio) is based on what I call economic jealousy.
Essentially those (in the case of the posters to aaio, primarily white, educated and privileged) who don’t have what they think they deserve or are too impatient to take the time and make the effort to get, want what they believe the previous generations has deprived them of or has somehow schemed to get and keep for themselves. They believe that they are owed by those who have what they do not, regardless of how lucky those who have might be or how long and hard they worked to get it. I can’t recall, at any point in my life, ever blaming my lot in it on the actions of previous generations to the extent of those generations that followed mine do today.
For many years, I rented and resided in various dwellings in Ypsi and A2. I bought my first house, 680 sq feet in the far western edge of A2. I worked at a job for 10 years before I sold that and bought my second home, close to downtown. I lucked out and got a good deal on a depressed property. I pumped almost everything I had into my home and paid it off, twice. I didn’t buy it to make a pile of money. I bought it because I like living here. Once I moved here, it took 35 years to get to the place I am today. Not an overnight success and a loser by some people’s standards.
If A2 is such a costly place to live (there are many others similar or more costly), yet you still want to live here, as is evidenced by all the whiners on this blog who imagine that they deserve an affordable place to live downtown, please try my long term plan. Get a good job, find a partner with a good job, then work at them for a long time. Save your money, sacrifice those expensive brews, ipods, cars, expensive weddings and trips abroad, and wait until you find the home that you think you’ll live in forever. Then do whatever you can to buy it and enjoy where you are. Even if it isn’t in Ann Arbor.
In life, you ante up and play the hand you’re dealt, win or lose. The dealer owes you nothing.
posted by mucho gusto on February 7th, 2008 at 12:11 amSome developments make sense, and some don’t.
The job of a “planning” commission is to come up with a plan that allows people to know what makes “sense” ahead of time.
What is supposed to happen is that the council and zoning board and planning commission is supposed to come up with rules for what is allowed where. Then they are supposed to approve proposals that conform with the rules. Conforming developments that neighbors and council members don’t like fall under the “tough noogies” subsection of the law.
Instead, now, instead of needing council and neighborhood approval to do a development that falls outside the framework, the participation requirements apply even when — quoting from Cahill here — “someone has the right to build something under the existing zoning.”
posted by Constantine on February 7th, 2008 at 12:14 amI don’t want a house I’m going to live in for the rest of my life. I want to rent. And I want to do so without interference from house owners who don’t want me in their neighborhood and whose “hard work” to maintain what they have includes using the government to pass laws that limit where I can live.
posted by ann arbor is overrated on February 7th, 2008 at 8:34 amAlso, my generation is wholly aware that, for reasons that have nothing to do with “expensive brew” consumption, we will never be situated as well as our parents’ generation. But that’s beyond the scope of this blog. It’s not necessarily their fault that the costs of housing, education and healthcare are skyrocketing. I am going to blame them, however, for doing everything in their power to keep me out of Burns Park.
posted by ann arbor is overrated on February 7th, 2008 at 8:42 amBurns Park is way overrated.
posted by Steve on February 7th, 2008 at 9:24 amYeah, Burns Park is truly way overrated.
posted by Just a homeowner on February 7th, 2008 at 9:33 amMucho — I’m interested in employing your gambling metaphor. Could you explain how I might best know when to hold ‘em, and know when to fold ‘em, as well as distinguishing when it’s better to walk away and when I should know when to run?
If your experience and historical perspective includes insight into the proper etiquette for counting your money when you’re sitting at the table, that would be great, too.
posted by Dale on February 7th, 2008 at 9:35 amI have great respect for AAIO, and I hesitate to take issue, but the comment “my generation … will never be situated as well as our parents’ generation” has ironic echoes for me. I have heard it so many times from people passing through their 20s and 30s over the last few decades. Indeed, I said it myself.
I don’t deny that there is evidence pointing in this direction. I had evidence like that, too, as well as the personal experience of struggling at the poverty line for years, while my father was a tenured professor and homeowner.
In those days, I gave little thought to the fact that my father had been a juvenile delinquent, abandoned by both parents, who grew up in foster homes and reform school, had his legs shot full of shrapnel in World War II — but went to college on the GI Bill, got straight A’s, and went on for a PhD. It was easy to forget about all that because he rarely spoke of these things.
Looking for a job is hard, and it erodes self-esteem. Most of us have little bargaining power; we’re at the mercy of enormous economic forces, not to mention the harsh snap judgments of strangers. The odds against us seem overwhelming.
In those dark hours, we think bitterly about how easy it was for our parents, who we imagine moved easily into lives of privilege and abundance. We forget that they had other problems. We forget about the advantages we have. The world has changed dramatically, and not always in a bad way.
And, in the end, it seems to work out. Maybe not for absolutely everybody, but the people I remember being so glum about never doing as well as their parents are doing just fine now. Maybe AAIO’s generation will be the exception, but I doubt it.
posted by Larry Kestenbaum on February 7th, 2008 at 11:16 amHeh, maybe that meme has been going around for a while, and I hope you’re right that all the doomsaying will be disproven. But I really do think that globalization is creating some unprecedented economic conditions. I heard one economist who was generally a supporter of globalization argue that all the models that show that it will raise everyone’s standards of living are correct — and that this will happen after perhaps 50 years of massive upheaval that we are not prepared to handle.
posted by ann arbor is overrated on February 7th, 2008 at 11:36 amLarry: I completely agree with you, and appreciate your perspective.
And I disagree with Mucho Gusto’s characterization of “my generation’s” “mentality”. I don’t think everyone in their 20s and 30s today is incapable of working hard and making their own way (the majority of the U-M grad students I knew not withstanding). One sign of this: a lot of the people posting to this blog don’t live in Michigan anymore, for the simple reason that hard work is better-rewarded elsewhere. For those willing to take their future into their own hands, sticking around to watch MI sink into an “Atlas Shrugged”-like dystopia makes little sense.
AAIO: trying to separate the facts from the political football that globalization has become, I think the popular fear and loathing towards it is overblown. I tend to take a rosier view of it for a few reasons, including: (1) lower prices for stuff benefit everyone; (2) the lower prices imply a more efficient use of natural resources, which is good; and (3) protectionism implies consigned the 3rd world to unimaginable poverty, which I don’t like.
posted by Nick on February 7th, 2008 at 12:34 pmI’d suggest everyone read Dean Baker’s Beat the Press blog on protectionism. Basically, he argues that we already have many forms of protectionism that benefit higher-income workers, like patent monopolies and professional barriers for doctors, lawyers and accountants that keep out global competition, except that we don’t consider them “protectionism.”
He’s a Michigan econ PhD too!
posted by ann arbor is overrated on February 7th, 2008 at 12:43 pmwhat is so overrated about burns park compared to other neighborhoods in ann arbor (which is overrated?)
i grew up there and live there now. i’m genuinely curious.
posted by nyambani yangu on February 7th, 2008 at 12:43 pmI don’t think everyone in their 20s and 30s today is incapable of working hard and making their own way (the majority of the U-M grad students I knew not withstanding). One sign of this: a lot of the people posting to this blog don’t live in Michigan anymore,
This is a really good point. While we celebrate those in the boomer generation and older whose hard work enabled them to live in the same place for years and put down roots there, perhaps at the expense of renters, we forget that the first thing you’re told if you’re having trouble finding a job is that you have to be willing to relocate, that refusal to do so implies that you think you are “entitled” to a job.
I’m not sure why Burns Park is overrated! Clearly a lot of people want to live there.
posted by ann arbor is overrated on February 7th, 2008 at 12:48 pmgranted, there are a lot of douchebags that live there, but i would bet no more than any other neighborhood…i think it is just a low hanging fruit when trying to sum up a2’s general lack of rating…
posted by nyambani yangu on February 7th, 2008 at 12:56 pmI cannot stand people who throw the term “NIMBY” around as if being a NIMBY is a bad thing. We all should care about what goes on in our backyard, so long as the reason for objecting is not discriminatory. Communities that don’t care about what gets built in their back yard end up looking like crap. The reason people want to live in Ann Arbor is because residents actually *gasp* care about their community. Go figure.
As for the 2 recent developments that got shot down by CIty Council…you should read up on why Council voted as they did. The hotel that was shot down required a lane of traffic to be closed on Division. The comments by Council members were in line with “I really want to approve this but I have issues with closing a lane of traffic on Division.” Does anyone really think that Division should have a lane closure? Would this be a “good” thing for the city? Cudos for Council for not approving a lane closure.
The 42 North development was shot down for a number of reasons. First, it violated zoning height limitations by 63%. Second, it would have filled in 11 of 12 wetlands. Third, it violated maximum allowable parking for the number of units. The developer wanted 640 parking spaces for a 160-unit development…by the way, the Lowe’s superstore on Jackson has about 500 parking spaces…this amount of pavement would have been enormous. There were other reasons too, but these were the main reasons Council voted it down. Except for one really odd person who spoke at the Council mtg (the one who wanted to take down the developers, who by the way doesn’t even live anywhere near this development), the dozens of people who spoke took no issue with student housing. Their issue was that the development violated zoning for no valid reason.
Residents get tired of out-of-state developers coming in and demanding zoning changes so that they can maximize their own profits with little regard to the impact on neighbors. If the developer followed zoning ordinances, there wouldn’t have been an issue. Cudos again to Council for looking at the big picture.
Joan Lowenstein sits on both Council AND the Planning Commission. Her job is to act as a liaison between Council and Planning to ensure commonality of expectations. Sure looks like she dropped the ball on these 2 developments…since every other Council member voted them down. So Jo Lo doesn’t care if Divison has a lane closure or if big looming buildings are put up with enormous amounts of impervious surface in complete violation of prescribed zoning. Interesting.
posted by Michelle on February 7th, 2008 at 1:07 pmBarton Hills however is not overrated. Its rated pretty high and for good reason.
posted by Steve on February 7th, 2008 at 1:12 pm“Cudos [sic] for Council for not approving a lane closure.”
Yeah, whatever, like that should make a difference in the future of the city. It carries heavy traffic for 2 hours everyday, the rest of the day that street– all four of five lanes of it, is wide open. I’m pretty sure people could deal with 3 lanes there, especially considering that it narrows by a lane north of Huron (i think).
But all hail the might automobile and the non-A2 residents who commute out of dodge 20 mph over the speed limit every day at 5pm!!!!
There was absolutely no reason to kill that development, especially not because of height, considering the context (tall buildings across the street) and the fact that this is a DOWNTOWN. Not to mention that that corner is butt-ugly right now.
posted by Brian on February 7th, 2008 at 1:28 pm“Cudos [sic] for Council for not approving a lane closure.”
Yeah, whatever, like that should make a difference in the future of the city. It carries heavy traffic for 2 hours everyday, the rest of the day that street– all four of five lanes of it, is wide open. I’m pretty sure people could deal with 3 lanes there, especially considering that it narrows by a lane north of Huron (i think).
But all hail the mighty automobile and the non-A2 residents who commute out of dodge 20 mph over the speed limit every day at 5pm!!!!
There was absolutely no reason to kill that development, especially not because of height, considering the context (tall buildings across the street) and the fact that this is a DOWNTOWN. Not to mention that that corner is butt-ugly right now.
posted by Brian on February 7th, 2008 at 1:28 pmNick, I never said that you or anyone else is incapable of working hard or making your own way, but there seems to be quite a few people, of all generations (although yours seems to be the most vocal) who tend to blame those who have (and I don’t mean the super-rich) for what the think they deserve or have somehow been deprived.
aaio, for all the whining about slumlords, expensive rents and substandard housing on this blog, you want to rent? Forever? Buying isn’t any different than renting except that you grow equity, get tax benefits, increase personal net worth, get a better credit rating, and if you can sit tight long enough, you can actually get a return on your investment when and if you sell. You might find out that maybe, just maybe, you might want to stay and enjoy where you are and the friends you have made there, if you ever get to that place. (But you seem the restless type to me), It might be better to rent instead of buying at this point in time (although it’s a buyers market right now and interest rates are falling), but financially that’s a loser in the long run. If you complain that you won’t or can’t have a standard of living as good or better than your parents, it’s that kind of thinking that will keep you where you are. Maybe you’re happy there, but I doubt it. Give that $$ to your landlord if you like, but as Mark Twain said, “Buy land, they’re not making it anymoreâ€.
I’m happy for those people who have left Michigan and succeeded at bettering their lot in life elsewhere, including those who post but no longer live here. Although I do find it condescending that they continue to tell those who actually live here what’s best for us.
Economic ups and downs are cyclical as evidenced by the historical perspective on construction in Ann Arbor that I presented. I don’t believe that Michigan is doomed to economic ruin. I think Michigan, with the correct forward looking choices about energy and technology is well situated to make an economic comeback in the near future. The state is surrounded by fresh water, has a skilled workforce, decent educational institutions, many unused (unfortunately at this time) industrial buildings and well connected transportation systems. These things bode well for the future.
I wasn’t born into my current life of luxury. In fact, after my legal troubles came and went, I was earning $2.90 an hour while my wife was collecting unemployment. I never attended a four year institution and learned a trade instead (Comes in handy when working on my old house). After we saved some dough, we decided to buy a house. It was the best decision we ever made. We borrowed from our parents (and paid back), saved a little $$ from not having a wedding (she wouldn’t buy property with me unless we were hitched) and made a down-payment on the crackerbox.
The downside is that I’m stuck in this shithole named Ann Arbor. It’s terrible here.
posted by mucho gusto on February 7th, 2008 at 1:41 pm“I do find it condescending that they continue to tell those who actually live here what’s best for us.”
Pot calling kettle black?
posted by Nick on February 7th, 2008 at 1:46 pm“Does anyone really think that Division should have a lane closure?”
Does anyone really think that we need *four* Northbound lanes there?
posted by Bruce Fields on February 7th, 2008 at 2:08 pmMucho — my parents don’t have money to lend. Should I take out a zero-down mortgage?
Also, if I decide that I had better save for a few years to make a downpayment to afford a house I’m by no means entitled to, will there be time enough for counting when the dealing’s done? Would it be inappropriate to rent in the meantime?
posted by Dale on February 7th, 2008 at 2:20 pmThe buy/rent dilemma will always be with us. There are reasons to buy and reasons to rent, and the balance shifts with economics and circumstances.
Me, as a single person, I rented for years because I didn’t have even remotely enough income to buy. Later, after I was married, we rented for seven years because we had such an outlandishly good deal.
Eventually, we bought a house, which meant paying more money for less space in a worse location. Arguably, we’re better off, but it’s not a simple question.
posted by Larry Kestenbaum on February 7th, 2008 at 3:01 pmDo what you gotta do, Dale. Stage coach robbery might be a good choice for you.
My father was a school teacher (long ago in Florida), my mother was a stay at home mom and an artist. Neither of those professions strike me as high paying. My wife’s parents were farmers, school bus drivers and worked the night shift at a state hospital in Western New York. We borrowed 5 g’s between the four of them. I’m sure it wasn’t easy.
I regret that, for whatever reason, your parents’ can’t do the same for you as they did for us. But don’t let your circumstances stop you from doing what’s best for yourself. Get that big degree and go plan something. If you can find a 0% down these days and can handle the payments, go for it and don’t look back.
I’m not a gambler, I only play one on tv.
It’s rent or sleep on someone’s couch for free. Maybe aaio has space on his/her couch?
As far as 4-5 lanes on S Division, we’ll need them when the new cop shop/courthouse/mixed use high rise and parking structure goes up on the library lot. During the A2DA exercises (I took part in some of them) the area from S Division to S 4th Ave between Huron and William began to take form as the “Midtown” area. I think dense development and tall buildings in that area would help connect State St and Main St.
posted by mucho gusto on February 7th, 2008 at 3:29 pmAbout Division Street, Bruce Fields asked: “Does anyone really think that we need *four* Northbound lanes there?”
C’mon Bruce, aren’t you for *choice* in transportation? You can use this lane you’re in, that lane to your right, that lane on your left, or hell, if those lanes are all full of *leaves* you can even use that one way the hell over there even farther to your right.
More seriously, the idea of reduced lane-age on Division isn’t novel. The DDA very recently developed a plan to do exactly that, using one of the lanes for on-street parking, plus a bicycle lane. That plan foundered on the calculus of dollars per parking space added.
Here’s the start of an article that ran in the the paper a year ago tomorrow (from the online Ann Arbor Public Library archives):
—–
Ann Arbor News (MI) - February 8, 2007
The Ann Arbor Downtown Development Authority on Wednesday punted on a resolution to spend up to $4 million to redesign Fifth Avenue and Division Street with fewer traffic lanes , more metered parking, added bike lanes and pedestrian-friendly streetscaping.
The project already has conceptual approval and funding set aside, but several DDA members balked at the potential expense of a project that will add only 110 parking spaces downtown.
—–
What the lane sacrifice connected to the hotel project had against it was the brute fact that the hotel is on the wrong side of the street to sacrifice a lane as a hotel drop off. (Where were cars going to head after checking in the hotel … immediately across two lanes of traffic to turn east on Washington to go the the parking structure.)
posted by HD on February 7th, 2008 at 3:43 pmI like four-lane roads AND big developments, so I haven’t taken a position on this one.
posted by ann arbor is overrated on February 7th, 2008 at 3:48 pm“C’mon Bruce, aren’t you for *choice* in transportation?”
Once we get everyone converted to two wheels that’s going to be what, like 8 lanes there. How many choices do you need?
“The DDA very recently developed a plan to do exactly that, using one of the lanes for on-street parking, plus a bicycle lane.”
Yeah, it was my vague memory of that that was making me go “huh?: so they could probably have conned the hotel into paying for part of an already-existing plan, and this was a negative?” But, OK, I suppose it wouldn’t have really been a similar plan, and:…
“What the lane sacrifice connected to the hotel project had against it was the brute fact that the hotel is on the wrong side of the street to sacrifice a lane as a hotel drop off.”
..fair enough. Traffic is so bursty–seems like you could always wait for the light at Washington (or Liberty? I’ve lost track of which block this is) to go red and then scoot across. But as a regular thing I can see how that could become a source of problems.
posted by Bruce Fields on February 7th, 2008 at 5:32 pmKudos to Michelle for using “Jo Lo”. “JoLow” is another version.
posted by David Boyle on February 7th, 2008 at 5:55 pmI’ve stopped caring. Ann Arbor is over. Pack it up, move to Ypsi. There lies the future.
Or Queens.
posted by Brandon on February 7th, 2008 at 6:21 pm“IIRC, the city added about 2,000 people in the last decade and compared to the rest of the region, yet A2 seems to have prospered in spite of what some people believe is a lack of development.”
Except that things I considered important to the Ann Arbor I loved have been driven off again and again by the high rents. Further, because of poor planning, Ann Arbor became more and more of a Southeast Michigan sprawl.
Part of the problem here may be that I’m not a pro-development ideologue. There are plenty of terrible developments that go up all the time that I’ve opposed.
But that’s balanced by the lack of cheap housing (buttressed by bullshit like my grandparents buying a house for $30000, though not here, and selling it for $200000 after some 30 years—that rate of return makes it nigh impossible to buy a house, because wages haven’t kept up). Mucho’s boostrap bullshit’s fine and good, but both Ann Arbor and working class people suffer because of the inordinate fear of tall buildings in Ann Arbor. I think that suffering is unjust, fundamentally. Not because people are entitled to anything per se, but because it’s unnecessary. There are simple steps that could be taken to make Ann Arbor more affordable and more accessible, but are opposed by warmed-over hippies who got theirs and can basically tell everyone else to get fucked.
A big part of my grousing about Ann Arbor is that Ann Arbor holds itself up as a city, and it’s not. It’s a podunk college town that plays at being a city, but is fundamentally unsatisfying for city life—and again, these changes are easy to make.
My grow or die comment didn’t mean that Ann Arbor would wither on the vine, but rather that Ann Arbor that I know and love will become another strip of HP Pickleshitters and Coldstone Creamy Creameries and endless sprawl. Ann Arbor, as I lived there, became less and less a liberal and free space, and more and more a yuppie playground.
The combination of no jobs for me or my girlfriend and the slow bleed-out of everything unique or worthwhile about Ann Arbor is why we left. I’d like to come back some day, maybe, if I could live in a walkable downtown on a reasonable income. But why? So I can see the new Buffalo Wild Wings? Fuck that.
posted by js on February 7th, 2008 at 6:29 pmHouses are cheaper here in A2 than in San francisco.
posted by Libby on February 7th, 2008 at 8:43 pmHouses are also cheaper in Ann Arbor than Monaco, but that doesn’t mean circling for a parking spot counts as a Grand Prix.
posted by ryan on February 7th, 2008 at 9:16 pm“Houses are cheaper here in A2 than in San francisco.
posted by Libby on February 7th, 2008 at 8:43 pm ”
The reason that this is a “True Fact” is explained by the inherent value in being located just to the west of Berkley California. If Ann Arbor was similarly geographically located, the houses in Ann Arbor would then likewise pull in San Francisco level prices.
posted by Louis on February 7th, 2008 at 9:30 pmJosh Steichmann reeks of penis envy.
Look b u d d y, A2 isn’t the same place that I remember either.
You brand of amber is only slightly less old and a lot less preserved than mine.
Male, 28, In a Relationship
posted by mucho gusto on February 7th, 2008 at 9:37 pmInterested In: Friends, Activity Partners
Member Since: Apr 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Hometown: Ann Arbor
College: Eastern Michigan University
Company: SGI Publications, LFP Publications
Last Login: 2 weeks
Josh’s URL:
http://profiles.friendster.com/94980
“6′2′, beard, blue jeans, t-shirt, rye whiskey, cheap pot, headphones, gym shoes, typing My music blog. Fuck…”
Steichmann, you still log in to Friendster?
posted by Brandon on February 7th, 2008 at 10:27 pmJosh’s comments remind me of myself. Bitching and whining about how A2 is not now what it once was. A real townie, Commie High and EMU grad, Current mag contributor. His angry young man rant about what’s wrong with Ann Arbor, brings tears to my eyes.
Talk about yearning for the “good old days” and preserving in amber? Yet, I’m the one who gets the stick in the eye?
I guess that this warmed over hippie got his. Fuck you too.
posted by mucho gusto on February 8th, 2008 at 10:38 am“I’ve stopped caring. Ann Arbor is over. Pack it up, move to Ypsi. There lies the future.
Or Queens.”
Hey- Philadelphia’s over here, too- we just got a new mayor who’s not an idiot, and everything!
Well, okay, there’s the crazy-high murder rate…
posted by rjwhite on February 8th, 2008 at 12:51 pmThe thing about HP Pickleshitters is that the first one, in Columbus, was really cool. They just ruined it when they started to franchise and then anyone could go.
I do like the motto on all the waitresses t-shirts, though. “Is that a pickle in your ass, or are you just glad to see us?”
posted by Parking Structure Dude! on February 8th, 2008 at 1:43 pmI was actually in Philly for work the other day and really dug it. Like a more chill, cheaper version of Brooklyn. Maybe a cross between Brooklyn, Portland, and Detroit.
posted by Brandon on February 8th, 2008 at 3:15 pmClose down main street in the summers on weekends and make it a pedestrian mall…build tall buildings with lots of condos so people who work in Ann Arbor can live downtown and not have to pay $300k+ to do it…if traffic becomes a problem, consider a congestion tax for people that commute into and out of the downtown area…develop the river front, its the only source of real (the Arb is fake) natural beauty, instead of surrounding it with “green spaces” that no one ever uses for fear of getting raped, put some bars/lofts/retail where possible and let people enjoy the space doing what they love to do, drinking and looking at it through their window…and mucho gusto, give it a rest already, we get it, you pulled your own boot straps so hard you’re in heaven now, otherwise known as property ownership in Ann Arbor. Nobody thinks they’re owed anything, we just think there are better ways of shaping what could be, and by some accounts once was, a cool city to live in. Obviously “cool” means different things to different people. You don’t like my idea of “cool”, I don’t care, its my city too. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to HP Pickleshitters to get the new pickle-flavored shake and wings combo and then its on to main street to buy some terrible art, oriental rugs, useless knick-knacks and some hilariously overpriced food and drinks.
posted by nja on February 8th, 2008 at 3:18 pmPhilly is cool…and murderific….
posted by nja on February 8th, 2008 at 3:20 pmBurns Park = white people with lots of money who put “end the war” signs in the yard and work to keep property values high and keep renters out.
posted by Just a homeowner on February 8th, 2008 at 4:21 pmI have to agree with aaio, that the next generation will live a lower standard then the generation before. People, pay attention!!Credit crunch, losing your manufacturing base,deflating housing values, government with underfunded mandates, inflationary/deflationary pressures,peak oil, rising commodities cost….People of post WWII, despite often the toughness of the world wars and depression, lived very well, and not just because they raised themselves from thier bootstraps, but because they live in a prosperous economy, at essentially the best place around at a fortuitous time in history. There’s been many a generation that woke up and worked hard everyday and did not get very far.
posted by juliem on February 9th, 2008 at 5:45 amOf course no one can know at the future holds, and there are plenty of ominous signs. But many of the things juliem lists could also be just distant memories before long. Credit crunch will be fixed in time. Losing manufacturing base hopefully will be filled with new economy base (it will take time, yes). Inflationary/deflationary pressures? Yeah, been there before. Peak oil? yeah, but do we have the capacity to transition to knew energy sources? I’d be surprised if not.
Now, the ridiculous costs of the war are a problem. The national debt is a problem. The economic transition underway is jarring. The shrinking middle class may be the biggest problem of all. The rise of China and India and others, yeah, it’s real. But they’ll be facing their own problems too.
All in all, I don’t conclude this is the end of progress for the U.S. I think we have the capacity to reinvent ourselves and to adjust to today’s and tomorrow’s problems.
posted by Bo Knew on February 9th, 2008 at 10:42 amSan Francisco is on a fault line. Why would housies be worth more?
posted by sr on February 9th, 2008 at 12:32 pmMichigan is surrounded by 5 great lakes, fresh water. I would think housing here would be worth more than there anyday, can’t just be the proximity to Berkely. San fran is overcrowded, dirty, and has a high percentage of homeless.
Hmm, optimistic on all counts, Bo Knew. I do believe my parents generation
posted by juliem on February 9th, 2008 at 9:14 pmin some ways is the luckiest generation around. Ann Arbor views itself an harbor in the storm.
juliem - no, not optimistic *on all counts* but optimistic in the final analysis. Yes, I agree there are many many difficulties and hardships facing us today and tomorrow. But when haven’t there been?
posted by Bo Knew on February 10th, 2008 at 10:32 amThat’s my point. The degree of hardship was less during the post WWII crowd. They may have struggled with their own issues, personal choice, divorce etc, but there wasn’t the difficulty with just eking out a living.
posted by juliem on February 10th, 2008 at 10:49 amI think the first rule of economics is that change is inevitable, and you either adapt or you don’t. This is especially important for cities. My father was a graduate student in Boston and a junior professor in Baltimore back in the late 60s, a time when neither was a very nice place to live. Boston has, of course, thrived since then and is now a great city, and Baltimore, if still very troubled, is definitely better than it was then. Yet neither came back because its blue-collar industries came back in force and everything went back to the way it was. This is the lesson for Michigan: the era of the Midwestern “company town” where a big employer takes care of everybody is over. And it’s not coming back.
posted by Nick on February 10th, 2008 at 12:58 pmI still think that the change is bigger than just Michigan’s problems, or what you view as Midwestern problems, although we are a good example of what is going on. Certainly, to adapt is to survive, and the first step to next step, which is to thrive. However, I think aaio is perceptive about this economic sea change.
posted by juliem on February 10th, 2008 at 6:21 pmAnn Arbor is positioned to do well, with the U in town, etc. I think there will unprecedented housing pressures to come in the next few decades, as it the price of oil will continue to rise, and people will find living in town with mass transit and smaller living space will be the best move economically.
The autos thrived because they were part of an era of plenty. Sharing energy resources, food and oil, with all those other countries, and those billions of people, is going to put downward pressure on the average American lifestyle in a way we have not experienced before.
It is not the end of the world, but it will include changes that we were not expecting.
juliem–why would Ann Arbor be positioned to do well? Mass transit here is not adequate–at least, relative to a more dense city. I agree that things will change, but Ann Arbor is no better (or worse) positioned than any other mid-sized city with the bare bones of a mass transit infrastructure.
posted by ex-suburbanite on February 11th, 2008 at 8:02 amNo, I think Ann Arbor is better positioned than most other Midwestern cities of comparable size, due to the fact that it already has a functioning downtown, and never totally surrendered to traffic pressures (see, e.g., the huge wide highways through Lansing or Pontiac). AATA may not be impressive next to NYC or Chicago, but compared to other cities of this size, it’s pretty good. Moreover, we have the University and a lively tech sector here.
posted by Larry Kestenbaum on February 11th, 2008 at 9:51 amWell, I think Ann Arbor will do well because of the university and the hospital, and because while mass transit isn’t the best right now, I believe it will improve. Now, AATA is really getting ridership. The demand is there, and it won’t go away. Because of the increase in the price of energy, all the factors are lining up for more concentrated living. The difficulty in keeping a car without adequate parking will be dwarfed by the expense of keeping and riding one. Sure, lots of folks in town have money for gas, but there are lots of people in the state who would love to get rid of their note and gas cost, and have a job. These people aren’t all going to leave Michigan.
posted by juliem on February 11th, 2008 at 9:55 amAnn Arbor is better off than say, Flint or Saginaw, and probably comparable to Lansing. It does have an anchor company, if you will, to keep employment up. It is trying to become, and I think well on its way to being a tech area. Proquest, Toyota, Google, to name a few examples. And where money is being generated, ancillary business will gravitate.
Hmm, as I hit the submit comment, it occurs to me that some enterprising soul could start a transit system to occupy the niche of ridership in town.
posted by juliem on February 11th, 2008 at 9:59 am“Steichmann, you still log in to Friendster?”
Every now and then. Though it looks like I need to update shit there. But occasionally people from high school get ahold of me through there.
posted by js on February 11th, 2008 at 2:04 pmI have been in A2 as long as anyone here.I come from a prominent extended family; though I myself am not. I think mucho has given an accurate historical account of development in A2 over the past three decades.
Someone said A2 likes to think of itself as a city. I don’t think that way nor do long time Ann Arborite friends. I am content to call Ann Arbor a mid sized town. I will say that certain urban features have crept into the public high schools. But for the most part A2 is the same as it was twenty and thirty years ago.
Someone else complained about mass transit. AATA is constantly cited as one of the best for a city the size of A2. The services for seniors and disabled are as good or better than any other. AATA services are geared toward ridership……….there is no need for twenty four hour service.
I am not against development. I have family members that have developed extensively over a long period of time. I want Ann Arbor to look like Ann Arbor. I do resent it when I believe some want A2 to look and be different then it is. So I like that fact that council and the various commisions are discriminating.
posted by giancola on February 14th, 2008 at 8:47 pmDoes “certain urban features” mean *gasp* black people?
Re: AATA: I may (or may not) have mentioned this before, but it’s a total catch-22. The routes are inconvenient. Parking is ample and cheap. (I know people bitch and whine about parking. But really, 80 cents an hour is quite reasonable. Or you can walk 10 minutes and park for free.) There’s no incentive to not drive, so people don’t. Hence, no ridership. So the routes never become convenient, and no one ever takes them because they’re inconvenient.
posted by ex-suburbanite on February 15th, 2008 at 12:20 amI took the AATA every day to North Campus when I lived downtown, and it was great, but it’s just not a viable option any more now that I live further away and have to make a connection. (I would still live downtown, but I didn’t know I was going to be back here, and when I found out there wasn’t much time to find an apartment.) They have become very reluctant to hold connecting buses for you, and out of the last few times I’ve commuted by bus, the first bus has been late about half the time and I missed the connection. Of course, they come a half hour apart (or an hour if it’s later!)
posted by ann arbor is overrated on February 15th, 2008 at 8:53 amI would add that to really make the AATA effective and useful, some form of mass transportation to other places would be useful. I’m guessing ridership levels would rise, and transfering would be better, if the AATA was linked up with proposed mass transit lines to the north and to the east. Good mass transit relies on spreading the cost out through a larger pool of riders. As long as the AATA is just working with A2 and Ypsi there will be limits to how effective it can be.
posted by Andy on February 15th, 2008 at 2:28 pmUnfortunately getting the needed lines to other communities remains, as it has for decades, a real challenge.
I knew somone would bring the race issue up when I mentioned urban issues creeping into the high schools.
I attended Mack school in the sixties with lots of black kids; some of who I still see from time to time. So no that is not the issue. The issue is Pioneer and Huron are different now then they were twenty and thirty years ago. Lots of things are different so why should the schools not be? Besides the black population of A2 has not changed much so I don’t know why that was brought up.Still I am not surprised.
AATA has lots of riders. Maybe not when some of you are riding but trust me the main routes are quite busy at certain times.
As for connecting to the north and east, who is gonna pay for it?
posted by giancola on February 15th, 2008 at 4:45 pmSo really, what does “certain urban features” mean? I don’t get it. How are they different now, and what does it have to do with urbanicity?
Just bringing up the race thing because it seems most plausible, and you didn’t explain what you meant. Ann Arbor also has a problem dealing with race (and sexual orientation), but loves to pat itself on the back for being better than the rest of the state. I tend to be on guard because I’m still on the receiving end of death glares as I (a white woman) walk down the street with my (black) boyfriend.
posted by ex-suburbanite on February 15th, 2008 at 6:07 pm” Someone said A2 likes to think of itself as a city. I don’t think that way nor do long time Ann Arborite friends. I am content to call Ann Arbor a mid sized town. I will say that certain urban features have crept into the public high schools. But for the most part A2 is the same as it was twenty and thirty years ago.
Someone else complained about mass transit. AATA is constantly cited as one of the best for a city the size of A2. “
So, it’s not a city but it has the best transit for a city its size?
See what I mean?
And no, Ann Arbor is not the same as 20 to 30 years ago—it has sprawled out because people who think of it as a small town haven’t let it grow properly.
posted by js on February 16th, 2008 at 1:34 pmHow are the high schools different? Here is how. A lot more fighting then in the past. Drugs are as prevalent as ever. Schools like Huron and Pioneer have a hell of a time finding Principals……………no one want the job because of asshole students and asshole parents.
Don’t believe me I don’t care. But ask someone in education that was either an administrator or teaxher how much the two big public high schools have changed. And just to emphasize to you again this is not some codespeak for blacks. Hell my sister was dating ablack guy in 1968 _ very simply it is that Huron and Pioneer have similar issues to schools in Detroit, Livonia, and other suburbs that they did not have thirty and more years ago. And since you get death glares how many are from black women?
As for the AATA comments from js, spare me.Because I call Ann Arbor a town in one sentence and a city in another somehow I am acknowledging that A2 is a city……………weak.
The truth is Ann Arbor has not grown all that much.The surrounding twps have. My thoughts are if it is so disagreeable then why not leave?. Perhaps the reason there is so much resistance about changing A2 is because we don’t want it changed all that much.
posted by giancola on February 16th, 2008 at 3:59 pmIt has to change. It will change, like or it or not. The pressures are there.
posted by juliem on February 16th, 2008 at 8:24 pmAnd sure, Ann Arborites who have been here for a long time will complain, including me. But that wonderful funkiness I so enjoyed fresh out of college isn’t about the height of the buildings, or buses that had good or bad service, it was about what was going on here. The idea of avoiding building changes reminds me of maintaining memorials. Dull. Interestingly, it was kind of a looked down thing to stay in town, the “hangers on crowd.” It still is an interesting, and now a larger and more dysfunctional area, but I think these are growing pains.
I will say, with all that is wrong with AAPS, I do think the administration actually wants to improve things. Can they? In some ways they overreach, and some ways they neglect, and in some ways they are completely incompetent, but I am more hopeful, because I think they are trying. Urbanization problems? I think bureaucratic problems is more
to the point. I saw a lot of dysfunction in the culture and the system of how AAPS runs itself. You can’t expect one person to change or even control it, so in some ways I really feel for those principals. In some ways the system overreaches, and some ways they are neglectful, and in some ways they are completely incompetent. I will say, with all that is wrong with AAPS, I do think the administration wants to improve things. Can they? Who knows. They need to focus more on the basics, and accountability in the system.
I moved to Ann Arbor in Dec. 1974. (Should add that I moved from a northern cookie-cutter town just north of Detroit.) Ann Arbor was then and still is the best town in the state. Not that I believe it’s a good thing - just means the other towns and cities are pretty lame and pathetic.
That said, I am surprised to find that this website may produce some positive results for Ann Arbor. I always thought this a town with too many snobs, for one thing. And I never thought Ann Arbor was or is perfect.
In the mid-seventies, you could take your date or main-squeeze (on foot) to any of several very good restaurants and after a great meal you could walk to any of the >four
posted by Arborpics on February 17th, 2008 at 4:55 pm