Does that Make Chicago a Really Big Champaign?
The Freep (thanks, Brandon!) explains why you should visit Toronto. “Toronto is kind of like a really big Ann Arbor — funky, tolerant, multicultural, young, with an artistic sensibility and an inherent dignity. It’s not New York. It’s not Chicago. It’s more … earnest. More … harmonious.” (Ellipses indicate not omitted text, but a soulful pause on the part of the writer.)
Dude, Toronto sucks. My friends just went there for a romantic get away and the dude’s car got towed the first night then broke into the second night and all of their stuff was stolen. Fuck crime ridden Toronto. A2 is really sucking lately too.
posted by Hater on March 19th, 2007 at 10:08 amDude, Toronto is awesome. I’ve been there for two straight spring breaks, now, for a total of about 10 days.
And - God, I can’t believe I’m agreeing with the Free Press these days - they’re sort of right. Well, at least about the funky (generally, but you’ll find funky stuff anywhere if you seek it out), tolerant (unless you’re in a non-tolerant ethnic enclave, but even then, Canada - it’s pretty sweet), young (um, I stayed near or on the U of T campus - but it isn’t big city horrible, price-wise, mostly, so maybe it makes it skew younger, don’t know), and artistic sensibility (kick-ass) / inherent dignity (to a point - they aren’t Brits, but they aren’t Americans either).
Now, as for Toronto “like a really big Ann Arbor” - I won’t do a piece by piece adjective assessment for Ann Arbor; I’m sure someone else will. However, I’d prefer to say Ann Arbor is like a really small Toronto - plus the disadvantages that come along with. This town seems more and more claustrophobic and pseudo-nepotistic every day, and that’s at least partly due to size. Toronto, except in tiny niche social circles (and probably even then), is too large for that to happen. It makes a big difference.
Earnest and harmonius… well, I’ve spent time in New York and Chicago, not that I’ve lived in either (or Toronto). I think earnest and harmonious is a pink-glasses view, but in comparison to NY/C? … well… yeah. It is. I stayed with 16 people, plus travelling companions, this time around. And every single one of them was interested in asking us questions, helping us to get around, offering us advice and their student cards for discounts… down to the last. And, hell, we just showed up on their doorstep after emailing about two weeks prior.
It may not be the majority, but that sort of attitude certainly wasn’t the anomoly there.
Article-Specific:
Don’t go to the CN Tower. Pretty view, but not worth the price of admission. Find a tall building somewhere else.
Theatre: Screw Phantom of the Opera. Look through the weekly papers - God, I wish Metro Times had half as much stuff to even review - and pick a small theatre. We got to see a kickass show for $20 at the door, ten minutes before showtime.
Beach? The hell? Too soon, Free Press.
Subway: Once, my brother and I were in Toronto, and the subway fare guy was on break. He had a sign up, and jar out, and it was honor-system fare. That’s all you need to know, really.
Shopping: No shit, Eaton Centre? Thanks, Free Press. I didn’t know it existed. Go to Kensington Market. Vintage clothing, fresh injera, and every cheese ever made on the same block.
Shoe Museum: I’m actually sad we didn’t have time to hit it up. It looks awesome.
Accomodations: Last year, when I paid for room, at the Backpackers Hostel. Decent location if you’re into “funky”, and they have a bar inside the hostel. That’s all you need to know, really, especially if it’s cold outside.
Now if someone from Toronto could explain why there’s both a seeming complete void of Latin American / Mexican food and/or how in the hell the twenty million sushi joints near Bloor and Spadina manage to co-exist, I’d be set.
posted by Jen on March 19th, 2007 at 11:21 amApologies for the length. Wow.
posted by Jen on March 19th, 2007 at 11:21 amDude, Ann Arbor doesn’t suck, some people in Ann Arbor suck. Will all Suckers please go to Alabama.
posted by Grandpa on March 19th, 2007 at 3:09 pmKensington Market — Sanci’s organic ice cream is the BEST. Lavender, goat cheese, rose hip; you name it and it’s frigging delicious.
posted by Dale on March 19th, 2007 at 4:27 pmDale,
I’m moving there in the fall. You’re welcome to visit anytime.
Peter
posted by Peter on March 19th, 2007 at 5:06 pmAfter reading your webpage, Grandpa, I feel it’s safe to say you are one of those people who “suck”.
posted by Anonymous on March 19th, 2007 at 5:53 pmOne of the numerous ways Toronto is actually better and unlike Ann Abor is the really tasty empanada restaurant at Kensington Market. That and it’s a *real* freaking city of 2.5 million people. And it has decent produce. And thousands of different restaurants. All unlike the swamp hole that is Ann Arbor City. Sigh.
posted by cjc on March 19th, 2007 at 9:23 pmIn defense of grandpa, the “ash tree” solution is rather convoluted. It on some levels does seem designed to target the site owner who is responsible for the sidewalk, to put pressure on him / her, and to keep the spotlight on the legislators who can then “solve” the problems they create with their own earlier bad decisions … However in a campus town the site owner is generally an opportunist, who maybe needs pressure placed on him / her (wait — can I say “her” in this context?) . . . . Anyway the ash tree is a short term fix with long-term problems that the “deciders” can shrug their shoulders at. That sounds familiar, doesn’t it
posted by toasty on March 20th, 2007 at 2:47 amOh: and toronto is a big winnipeg, i think
posted by toasty on March 20th, 2007 at 2:48 amJen - the lack of Mexican food in Toronto is due to the lack of… Umm… Mexicans. Tacos El Asador is the only decent joint in the whole city, and that doesn’t say much (it was a great late night greasy food fix, though).
Sorry, I can’t explain the sushi thing. It’s still a mystery to me after all these years, as is why I can’t stop thinking about Sushi-Time’s Sushi Pizza (yes, I know how gross that sounds so I won’t even try to justify it).
posted by FAA [Ex-Torontonian] on March 20th, 2007 at 4:54 pmOf course all you wannabe boho types just LOVE Kensington Market. So cliche. Effin’ poseurs.
posted by Darryl Sittler on March 20th, 2007 at 11:20 pmI got a sweet vintage sweater for $5, and Ethiopian spices (my last stash came from DC - it’s the only thing the Rafal Spice Company in Detroit hasn’t had that I needed) for half a year for $6.
If that makes me a wannabe boho type, then hell, I guess I am.
FAA - I figured it was probably that, but it’s just weird. I mean, every other random ethnic group shows up in Toronto, somewhere. The paper had a review of a Uzbeckistani restaurant, for heaven’s sake. Maybe it’s just the cold that keeps anyone south of Texas away from Toronto, I don’t know…
What does a sushi pizza consist of, exactly? We got sushi twice, but never ran across that…
posted by Jen on March 21st, 2007 at 10:46 amJen - I’m sure sushi pizza is about as appetizing as hot dogs when you talk ingredients. It’s giant ball of sushi rice, flattened, deep-fried, and topped with spicy mayo, avocado, sashimi (usually salmon and or mackerel) and tobiko. It’s so unhealthful and such a fine example of how to bastardize the cuisine of one or more foreign cultures I can’t believe it isn’t an American invention.
I like your cold keeping anyone south of Texas theory, but the Jamaican and Caribbean populations of Toronto debunk it. Maybe it’s a sort of catch 22 - you can’t get good Mexican food there, so why would a Mexican want to live there?
posted by FAA on March 21st, 2007 at 2:51 pmre Kensington Market, let’s not forget that little French place with the name I can’t, like, remember. They had a nice little trio option of horse, duck, and buffalo, I think. It was called “quack and track” or something like that. Anyway, it was nice Toronto: almost sleepily groovy without the hyper-hipsterism of Williamsburg, East Village, et al. But for groovy-factor, yummy-eats, and atmospheric hipster rock, everyone in Canadiana knows that Montreal’s where’s it at!
posted by caetano on March 23rd, 2007 at 5:16 pmThere is a large latin american population in Toronto, just not a large Mexican population. There are excellent Cuban and S. American restaurants.
posted by lorayn on March 23rd, 2007 at 9:51 pmAA=NY or Toronto?
Whata bunch shite!
I think that on scals of cities, you can step up to a small city by living in Chicago, or a really fucking large one by moving to NYC. I Moved to NYC in 2000. Just left with the wife to re-settle in Chicago. Stress level and intensity of Chicago cannot compare to NYC. It stands soemwhere between the small-town-incorporated-as-a-city that is AA, and NYC. Fine place to put yer feet up.
posted by Scooteronomy on March 24th, 2007 at 3:39 pmOh my God! I cannot believe that the author would call Ann Arbor “funky, tolerant, multicultural, young, with an artistic sensibility and an inherent dignity”-why the hell does everyone buy into this myth about Ann Arbor? Funky? No. No one here has any sense of style and the music scene is crap. Tolerant? I guess, sort of. Accepting of gay people, but not really of poor people. Multicultural? You have to be kidding me! Maybe it’s better than some other random town in the midwest, but that’s only because of U-M, and even so, that is NOTHING compared to a real city like Toronto or New York. Sure, there are asian, Indian, and some black and latino students, but they are students and therefore all pretty similar. There is no real cultural diversity. You don’t hear people speaking in different languages. There are no ethic neighborhoods or restaurants. And it’s just young by default, because there are college kids here. The ’scene’ is not young at all. And finally, artistic? Don’t make me laugh! All the real artists (I mean, those who aren’t just in art school) don’t live in AA. They live in Ypsi or Detroit or they’ve left the state. That ‘inherent dignity’ thing is part of what annoys me–the attitude that some people here have about the unquestionable greatness of this town, but it’s just not based on anything. Have these people ever lived in a city that’s actually cool? I HATE the whole goddamn myth of Ann Arbor. It makes me want to choke people.
posted by chocolatemalt on March 26th, 2007 at 8:43 pmWithout addressing most of your tirade (you may want to watch the blood pressure), I have to say I hear people speaking in other languages all the time. So you’re wrong about that. The rest, eh. It’s long established Ann Arbor is a small town with grand pretensions that don’t measure up to the Big City. Why get worked up about it? Grab a scented candle and some artisanal cheese and make the best of it.
posted by Anonymous on March 26th, 2007 at 8:51 pmSorry, that was me.
posted by Dave on March 26th, 2007 at 8:52 pmIcan’tbelieveI’mdefendingAnnArborbut
First: I know plenty of (mostly former art school) artists in town. Detroit definitely has the better stuff going on, but if you are a truly starving artist, you can’t afford the car you’d need to properly live in Detroit.
Is the city really big enough to even support a ethnic “neighborhood”, anyhow?
As for other languages, oh, hell no. Just take the AATA sometime - at least a third of the time I’m riding there’s some non-English conversation going on.
[insert obligatory joke about how some GSIs not really speaking English either]
[insert rebuttal and cries of ethnic intolerance]
[insert anecdote of intro level physics, math, or engineering classes]
My work here is done.
posted by Jen on March 26th, 2007 at 9:02 pmSorry for the no paragraph breaks in that tirade!
Okay, maybe I haven’t lived here long enough to meet the real artists. But generally, it’s too expensive here for poor artists, on the whole: you have to admit that. I don’t find the art scene (and definitely not the music scene) booming.
Also, though I do take the AATA twice per day, somehow I may have missed the foreign conversations taking place on certain bus lines. Maybe mine is just particularly white.
But I’m not talking about the foreign students who stay here for a few years and leave. That is not diversity! It is not really diverse here. That’s obvious to anyone who has lived in a real city. Ann Arbor is good for what it is: a cute(-ish) college town. The end. I just get so mad about the big city attitude around here. It is completely undeserved.
posted by chocolatemalt on March 27th, 2007 at 10:53 amsitting here in the lobby of the computer science building, i can tell you that i can not understand a single word in any of the conversations around me.
posted by peter honeyman on March 27th, 2007 at 3:02 pm… and outside of the university setting, the elementary schools are filled with kids from around the world. Many of whom were born outside of the US. Their parents have thick accents and can clearly speak their mother tongue if they choose. Without much effort I can name dozens of people in AA who were born outside of the US and are not associated with the university. They may have originally come here due to the university, but they have since left that, but not AA.
posted by abc on March 27th, 2007 at 3:21 pmOh, I definitely wasn’t disputing the completely undeserved “big-city attitude”.
Drives me insane, really, and you’re quite on-point there.
But do be careful with distinguishing between “real residents” and “students”. I’ve been here going on 6 years. Just because I’m renting and taking classes doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be considered a “real resident”. That is the sort of attitude (amongst other things) that does drive us young’uns from the city pretty darn quick. Or at the very least, get annoyingly bitter and cynical (hi, me).
It is pretty damn expensive for the poor students and recently ex-students to live here, to be sure. But remember, most of us spent at least 4 years figuring out how to afford to live here, and believe me, it isn’t all from loans or Mom/Dad. Quality of life may be debatedly diminished a bit (I’ve never set foot in Cafe Felix, but I can name most of the 8-Ball wall hangings off the top of my head), but we manage.
Who do you think is doing the waitressing and the bartending and such? Well, some travel in from cheaper places to live, but a good number of them are the aforementioned broke artists. But most I’ve known don’t really stay long enough to form any sort of visible community (unless you’re already involved in it).
You stay because everyone you know is still around, and every summer more of your friends head off, and eventually you follow. I think the average staying time after graduation is about 2-3 years, and then it really isn’t worth it to stay when you’d thrive somewhere else.
I’m looking forward to it soon, too.
posted by Jen on March 27th, 2007 at 5:20 pmOkay, yes, like I said, there are foreign students (and ex-students, and their kids) here. No duh! It’s a COLLEGE town. But Ann Arbor is nothing like Toronto or any other city it gets compared to, like New York. It’s nothing like a big city. Sorry. Maybe compared to the rest of Michigan it might seem nice, but it’s not like a big city. It’s just not. As a native New Yorker who has lived there for the past 26 years of my life, I can tell you that pretty confidently. That’s all I was trying to say.
But I like Ypsi.
posted by chocolatemalt on March 27th, 2007 at 8:50 pmPeter — I heard your good news. Congratulations. My wife and I visit T-town every solstice.
posted by Dale on March 27th, 2007 at 9:59 pmThanks, Dale!
posted by peter honeyman on March 28th, 2007 at 5:58 pmI know someone is apparently comparing Ann Arbor to New York et al. all the time, but who? Is it that guy who does the “Best Places to Live” lists? So many people get so pissed off that Ann Arbor thinks it’s New York, but I don’t know any actual residents who think that. In my experience most folks seem to think, more or less, as follows: “For a town of its size, Ann Arbor has a lot of stuff going on,” which I believe is a perfectly defensible statement.
Of course, I tend not to hang out with snobs (and vice versa), so I may just be totally ignorant of an entire demographic of AA denizens. I’m rather curious about such people though…
posted by Dave on March 29th, 2007 at 1:11 pm“I tend not to hang out with snobs”
Of course not. Nobody hangs out with snobs.
Well, at least nobody worth mentioning.
posted by Bruce Fields on March 29th, 2007 at 2:02 pmFair point.
posted by Dave on March 30th, 2007 at 10:52 amChocolate malt (mmmm…. malted!),
Ann Arborites are biased against poor people, without even realizing it, really. They think everyone has the same amount of disposable income they do and assume everyone eats out, goes to movies, and shops recreationally. But in fact there’s a big divide in haves and have-nots, esp. among U employees.
Ferona
posted by Ferona on March 30th, 2007 at 2:10 pmFor the record, Dave, I did get A LOT of comparisons between A2 and much larger cities when people at U-M were trying to convince me to move there from California for grad school. More than once I was assured me that, just as one experiences in a large city, A2 had so many cultural and entertainment options that I wouldn’t possibly be able to do and see everything. And I do recall lots of comparisons to New York. So, unfortunately, I’m not sure it’s quite the urban myth you suggest.
posted by Nick on March 30th, 2007 at 7:01 pmcomparisons to new york are just one of those things people want to sell you anywhere– from playa del carmen in the yucatan to eau claire, wisconsin: “we are not new york, but close” “prices are as high as new york” “higher than new york” (a las vegas huckster i once met) “move in here, it’s gonna be bigger than new york” (branson, missouri) — its just a weird aspect of dealing with uninformed people trying to chisel other uninformed people. All of us who have been through it can just laff: time to chisel the chiselers
posted by toasty on March 31st, 2007 at 4:57 amI lived in Toronto for almost 5 years and let me tell you, the city itself isn’t that bad. And one note on the Kensington Market Organic Ice cream joint… I used to work there myself. So if you happened to go there a few summers ago… I might have served you myself.
I heard (from the owner) that the scoop shop has moved to a new place, no longer in Kensington Market. Keep checking, I’m sure you’ll be able to revisit those Lavender-Blueberry/ Rose Petal Vanilla and wonderful Chai ice cream somewhere downtown!
posted by Wilson on April 1st, 2007 at 4:33 amI didn’t mean to suggest the NY comparison was an urban myth, only that I wondered who it is that says that stuff. Do they even live here?
posted by Dave on April 2nd, 2007 at 3:33 pmAnn Arbor is transient and temporary for most people. I left 22 years ago and as the mfg. jobs have become more and more scarce, so has the blue collar (working class) flavor that, believe it or not, Ann Arbor once had plenty of and needs to really even begin to call itself diverse. There used to be lots of street performers, dingy studios, pack-rat style bookstores, loosely structured concerts, etc. and it didn’t cost a kings ransom to live there. Your best bet, if you are an artist who wishes to remain in Michigan is to go to Detroit or Jackson (which is in the process of renovating the really old state prison into an arts colony that has very affordable housing). People just need to branch out and create their own city and not try to make Ann Arbor something it no longer is or can be again. Look what the poor artists did for Soho, they made it such a desirable place to live for the yuppies that they can no longer afford to live there themselves and they’ll do it again somewhere else.
And, it’s not just Ann Arbor, it’s many of the cities that have gone ‘gentrified’ making living in them impossible. New York, Chicago, Atlanta. They are all the same. Harlem, the bastion of the poor has now become a place the poor can’t afford to pay taxes on much less live in.
If you want wild spaces in-between, you have to look elsewhere.
Oh yeah, most of my school chums from Community High don’t live in Ann Arbor anymore, they live in Philly, New York, Boston, San Francisco and Atlanta.
posted by A-Squared Ex on May 1st, 2007 at 3:38 pm