Uh, a girl I used to date moved to Iowa City from Ann Arbor a couple years back for her MFA and seems to find it markedly different from Ann Arbor, i.e. much smaller (like 1/3 the population?), more limiting (esp in terms of ethnic food), more isolated, etc. Moreover, Ann Arbor, being part of a major metropolitan area, offers access to a lot that Iowa City doesn’t. But it also sounds nice in a lot of ways. I’ve driven through and it does indeed seem pretty sleepy.
I’ve spent a fair amount of time in Iowa City, and I call shenanigans on the Metafilter community. I’m not saying Ann Arbor is chic or anything, but Iowa City is a desolate little place … nothing but bars and the school. If you ask me, Iowa City more resembles Carbondale or Ames or one of those other “we’ve got a school and that’s it” places than it does Ann Arbor. It ain’t even close.
I thought Iowa City was pretty lame compared to Madison, which actually is sort of like Ann Arbor, when I went there for ARML in high school…I’m just passing on the conventional wisdom.
When I moved here from Lawrence, KS eight years ago I was told over and over that Ann Arbor was “just like” Lawrence.
Now I’ve grown to love A^2, but they really aren’t the same at all. I used to call Ann Arbor “The Beige City” because everything here seemed so self-aware, canned, and clean. Like I say, I’ve since discovered that there is some character and nuance to Ann Arbor beneath it’s shiny exterior and I really do like it here. And sure there are inevitable similarities among Midwestern college towns. But there are some pretty major differences too, sort of like the ever-present AA/NYC gastronomical comparisons.
Yeah i like the Bloomington comparison. Without the limestone.
I know cheever and carver taught in Iowa City and that it used to be a great writers’ school ( if, nowadays, you want to read rants that are more or less ‘midwest gothic’ in tone) — even Flannery O’Connor went there (altho nobody could understand her speech at the time, supposedly).
Nowadays Mich has the better MFA writers’ program (look at Kostova). It is weird rating the Midwest because only the Midwest understands that it exists in real-time and yet it is unaware of the gaze that stares down on it. Thus it struts around trying to impress itself.
toasty, what the hell does that mean? I’ve lived on the East Coast and the MIdwest, and the Midwest is not really a place that can be accused of massive navel-gazing or “strutting around”. (Though Ann Arbor is the exception…)
Yeah, I live in Madison now. It’s like Ann Arbor but with lakes and actual liberals. Madison is a better city, Ann Arbor has a better campus and school. Depends what you’re there for.
cjc– not sure if you really want me to splain myself but in the interest of making up for being oblique: people who live on the coasts tend to think of the Midwest as existing in ‘the past’ — somebody a few threads back mentioned that it is perceived as being like Little House on the Prairie. It’s like the way a French friend of mine told me that before he moved to New York, he thought USA was, in his terms “Like things you see on Jerry Springer”. When I was at Michigan my anthropology training made me aware of how we do this to post-colonial peoples. I got to thinking about how people on the coasts do it to the Midwest. My hypothesis pertained to ‘midwest gothic’ type writing ala “Jesus’ Son” — stuff that to me is about people trying to invent an ‘otherness’ for themselves in a setting that is already completely misunderstood.
Anyway, don’t mean to lay out such a long verb. best
interesting point. I’ve long thought that some of the denigrating ‘flyover’ mentality on the coasts stems from a deep-seeded provincial insecurity. Folks on the coasts may be very familiar with several large cities, possibly in several countries. They use that familiarity as a basic standard of sophistication. This is why New Yorkers feel that they can name an intersection in Manhattan and I am supposed to know exactly where it is and what is on the corner. But expect them to know anything about the Midwest… crazy talk.
Now the interesting thing is that a lot of Midwesterners, especially in University towns, are also quite familiar with the big coastal cities, possibly also several countries, as well as a variety of places in the flyover zone. This all adds up to cosmopolitanism in the Midwest that one could even argue is more full than the standard coastal situation.
As you point out though it is pointless to compare the two regions on a 1:1 scale since they are qualitatively different and don’t really get each other. [anthro speak]But the dialectical processes of manufacturing alterity are really fascinating here.[/anthro speak]
Although, to be fair, dcwp, one could cite the pretty sweeping generalizations you make about coastal-city dwellers as a sign of your own deep-”seeded” provincial insecurity. As far as provincial insecurity goes, A2 was far worse than any other place I’ve lived before or since.
Fair enough, one might say that. But they are meant to be sweeping generalizations about people with a denigrating “flyover” attitude toward the center of the country, not necessarily all city dwellers.
That’s not to say that I didn’t want to ruffle any feathers though, what fun would that be?
I hear you all. Everyone wants to limit someone else’s claim. In most ways people in the Midwest (and everyone in ann arbor, just give it time) are as sophisticated as people on the coasts– in some cases moreso: something about being oppressed incites creativity and insightfulness that a lot of coast people don’t have– or want. But this is true of all colonized peoples: the USA coasts still decide what gets said globally about the US, so they can represent the Midwest however they want to, which makes these very site-specific people very powerful, and nobody can do anything about it. They will insist that you work for them or– if you are very creative– they will offer you a deal in which the cachet of your location is included (so long as it is subservient to the site from which your image is being sold)– ie, New York or LA. So it ends up being: a band “from” Detroit is made accessible by New York to the world via publicity etc. (This happens even if the Detroit band is WAY more sophisticated than the NY promoters.) In this formula a Long Island exterminator can consider himself more sophisticated than an Ann Arbor sociology student.
But the worst are the pedestrians : people who hold down a street corner but who have never left New York– my Columbia MSW spouse asked a Bronx kid recently “Have you ever been outside of New York?”– to which he said “I have been to Manhattan.” Another kid said he was “from the South — Detroit” which was funny and sad, as I’m sure you will agree.
As usual, you’ve all got it wrong. The people on the coasts aren’t human at all: the West coast is entirely populated by brain-eating Barbitron Androids created in the mid-Seventies by Sherwood Schwartz, and the East coast is entirely inhabited by rapacious reptilian aliens from Neptune.
Wake up! They don’t find you provincial, they find you delicious!
Having grown up bicoastal (divorced parents — I spent school years with Mom in Los Angeles and summer/winter breaks with Dad in Boston), am I doubly inhuman? I never thought of Midwesterners as either provincial or delicious. I really didn’t think of them at all; the Midwest was just what I saw when I looked out the airplane window. Now I live here, and my friends and family back home (both homes) think I milk cows for breakfast, vote Republican, drive a tractor, and trudge through the snow 365 days a year. Well, looking outside, I guess the snow part isn’t too far-fetched…
I appreciate your pity Emily. I’ll be thinking about how unfortunate I am to not know more about the Midwest when I’m biking at the beach tomorrow in 75-degree weather.
I hope you enjoy your bike ride, Nick. Stop at Hot Dog on a Stick (just south of the Santa Monica Pier) and have a hot dog for me. I worked there in high school and never want to see another beach for as long as I live. Meanwhile, I’ll be having a much better hot dog for about half the price at Red Hot Lovers. LA is a nice place to be a tourist, but after having lived there for 22 years, I wash my hands of the place.
Well said. Extra bonus-points for name-dropping Jesus’ Son.
Although, personally, I really tend to identify more with “Great Lakes Region” than “Midwest”. I’m familiar with and can/do identify with Michigan (obviously), Wisconsin, Ontario, and even upstate New York; not the biggest fan of Ohio or Illinois, but Chicago is always familiar even though I’m not there that often. However, anything beyond that… I suppose I can relate in “fly-over country” solidarity, but not much else. I understand someone from, say, Oregon (West Coast but not really) more than someone from, oh, Iowa.
That said, I haven’t been on the West Coast much at all. I’m more familiar with the East, but I’ve met/been friends with locals from both. The main difference I’ve seen (purely anecdotal and probably BS) is that there’s a straightforward attitude from Midwesterners that isn’t always present in those from the coasts. Straightforward in that there’s less pretentious annoyance and a bit of humility. It’s present even with the west coast bible-belt crowd, and definitely with Detroit/UP population (comes with being an underdog all the time, I guess).
Talking to certain East Coasters, there’s often an underlying attitude of “well, where I come from is actually important and intellectual and you just don’t understand sophistication and taste”. Californians, same thing, but with more of a bent towards New-Age-y concepts (that, of course, we just can’t understand). In both cases, an elitism that just tastes horribly bitter on my tongue.
When it’s especially bad it’s almost like pandering towards my oh-so unfortunate uncivillized old-time upbringing. Usually it just lingers around the edges, especially in those who chose to go to U of M… but it comes through every now and then.
RDS:
Agreed on Madison. I’ve had nothing but enjoyable visits there.
I’ve spent a lot of time in both IC and A2, and there are a few main differences, including that rent is much cheaper in IC (to those in Ann Arbor, this would be that foreign concept of “reasonable rent.”) As for the previous comments, it’s my impression that IC has as much ethnic food as A2, and I think that the Writer’s Workshop is separate from an MFA program like Michigan’s (just my impression). But, like Tanner B said several days ago upthread, I too moved to A2 from IC, and that’s how I describe IC in A2: “It’s like A2, but smaller.”
toasty, Please let the young ones know more about this quote: “But this is true of all colonized peoples: the USA coasts still decide what gets said globally about the US, so they can represent the Midwest however they want to, which makes these very site-specific people very powerful, and nobody can do anything about it.”
Does this mean that LA and NYC LOVE the Nascar? And the Bush? And the Natural Light? And the musical score to “Deliverance”?
If the Midwest/non-coastal areas really mean nothing and is co-opted by the Coasters, than how the hell do people abroad get these ideas about Americans in general?
Largely from the media, which shows the midwest and the south loving these things. And who controls the media? I mean, people in Tennessee or Mississippi weren’t the ones making “The Dukes of Hazzard.”
Iowa City’s nice enough, but living there made me miss Ann Arbor. To repeat much of what’s already been said, downtown IC is basically the South University area, full of college bars (of the “$5 pitcher - WHOO!” variety) with a handful of restaurants and bookstores. (Prairie Lights Books is a gem.)
The number of ethnic restaurants was growing when I left in 2005, but they pale to what you’d find here. And the movie scene was particularly disappointing, limited to the multiplexes, wide release “indies,” and whatever the student-run theater could get (if it wasn’t already available on video).
Overall, it’s pretty boring. And you’re trapped. There’s no nearby big city (Des Moines is even worse), unless you’re willing to drive 300 miles to Chicago. However, if you’re a grad student who needs to lock him or herself away to work on your thesis, that’s not necessarily a bad thing.
I’m not even sure there was much “consensus” on that Metafilter page. They barely even talked about Iowa City compared to Ann Arbor, other than to say Iowa City is smaller. It was mostly about Raleigh and Durham. But it fits your attitude towards A2, I guess, to parse the barely-there comparison out of it.
I can measure the amount of time I’ve spent on either coast in weeks (maybe three of ‘em). I was playing trivia in a bar a little while ago, and one of the “current events” type questions was, “What is believed to have caused the smell in New York?” I was unfamiliar with this particular headline and was like, “Why is it even news that New York smells?”
The funny thing about New York, the people who are snobby are the wealthy, educated, social/financial climbers. Gawd. Go to Queens sometime where I live and everyone thinks Manhattanites (and people from much of Brooklyn) are just as bad as you Midwesterners do. I sometimes feel that Queens has more in common with Hamtramck than with Manhattan.
I moved to A2 from IC a little over a year ago and I’ve been saying exactly this since.
posted by Tanner B. on February 27th, 2007 at 12:30 am eUh, a girl I used to date moved to Iowa City from Ann Arbor a couple years back for her MFA and seems to find it markedly different from Ann Arbor, i.e. much smaller (like 1/3 the population?), more limiting (esp in terms of ethnic food), more isolated, etc. Moreover, Ann Arbor, being part of a major metropolitan area, offers access to a lot that Iowa City doesn’t. But it also sounds nice in a lot of ways. I’ve driven through and it does indeed seem pretty sleepy.
posted by Brandon on February 27th, 2007 at 10:23 am eI’ve spent a fair amount of time in Iowa City, and I call shenanigans on the Metafilter community. I’m not saying Ann Arbor is chic or anything, but Iowa City is a desolate little place … nothing but bars and the school. If you ask me, Iowa City more resembles Carbondale or Ames or one of those other “we’ve got a school and that’s it” places than it does Ann Arbor. It ain’t even close.
posted by RDS on February 27th, 2007 at 11:16 am eI thought Iowa City was pretty lame compared to Madison, which actually is sort of like Ann Arbor, when I went there for ARML in high school…I’m just passing on the conventional wisdom.
posted by ann arbor is overrated on February 27th, 2007 at 11:41 am eiowa city has about the same area as ann arbor, but half the population.
i’ve been to iowa city once or twice … it’s more like bloomington than ann arbor.
posted by peter honeyman on February 27th, 2007 at 1:58 pm eWhen I moved here from Lawrence, KS eight years ago I was told over and over that Ann Arbor was “just like” Lawrence.
Now I’ve grown to love A^2, but they really aren’t the same at all. I used to call Ann Arbor “The Beige City” because everything here seemed so self-aware, canned, and clean. Like I say, I’ve since discovered that there is some character and nuance to Ann Arbor beneath it’s shiny exterior and I really do like it here. And sure there are inevitable similarities among Midwestern college towns. But there are some pretty major differences too, sort of like the ever-present AA/NYC gastronomical comparisons.
posted by dcwp on February 27th, 2007 at 6:37 pm eYeah i like the Bloomington comparison. Without the limestone.
I know cheever and carver taught in Iowa City and that it used to be a great writers’ school ( if, nowadays, you want to read rants that are more or less ‘midwest gothic’ in tone) — even Flannery O’Connor went there (altho nobody could understand her speech at the time, supposedly).
Nowadays Mich has the better MFA writers’ program (look at Kostova). It is weird rating the Midwest because only the Midwest understands that it exists in real-time and yet it is unaware of the gaze that stares down on it. Thus it struts around trying to impress itself.
posted by toasty on February 28th, 2007 at 3:21 am etoasty, what the hell does that mean? I’ve lived on the East Coast and the MIdwest, and the Midwest is not really a place that can be accused of massive navel-gazing or “strutting around”. (Though Ann Arbor is the exception…)
posted by cjc on February 28th, 2007 at 11:28 am eHey AAIO, is Math Camp overrated?
posted by David Boyle on February 28th, 2007 at 2:05 pm eYeah, I live in Madison now. It’s like Ann Arbor but with lakes and actual liberals. Madison is a better city, Ann Arbor has a better campus and school. Depends what you’re there for.
posted by RDS on February 28th, 2007 at 10:12 pm ecjc– not sure if you really want me to splain myself but in the interest of making up for being oblique: people who live on the coasts tend to think of the Midwest as existing in ‘the past’ — somebody a few threads back mentioned that it is perceived as being like Little House on the Prairie. It’s like the way a French friend of mine told me that before he moved to New York, he thought USA was, in his terms “Like things you see on Jerry Springer”. When I was at Michigan my anthropology training made me aware of how we do this to post-colonial peoples. I got to thinking about how people on the coasts do it to the Midwest. My hypothesis pertained to ‘midwest gothic’ type writing ala “Jesus’ Son” — stuff that to me is about people trying to invent an ‘otherness’ for themselves in a setting that is already completely misunderstood.
Anyway, don’t mean to lay out such a long verb. best
posted by toasty on March 1st, 2007 at 12:13 am etoasty -
interesting point. I’ve long thought that some of the denigrating ‘flyover’ mentality on the coasts stems from a deep-seeded provincial insecurity. Folks on the coasts may be very familiar with several large cities, possibly in several countries. They use that familiarity as a basic standard of sophistication. This is why New Yorkers feel that they can name an intersection in Manhattan and I am supposed to know exactly where it is and what is on the corner. But expect them to know anything about the Midwest… crazy talk.
Now the interesting thing is that a lot of Midwesterners, especially in University towns, are also quite familiar with the big coastal cities, possibly also several countries, as well as a variety of places in the flyover zone. This all adds up to cosmopolitanism in the Midwest that one could even argue is more full than the standard coastal situation.
As you point out though it is pointless to compare the two regions on a 1:1 scale since they are qualitatively different and don’t really get each other. [anthro speak]But the dialectical processes of manufacturing alterity are really fascinating here.[/anthro speak]
New Yorkers - Flame on.
posted by dcwp on March 1st, 2007 at 10:08 am eAlthough, to be fair, dcwp, one could cite the pretty sweeping generalizations you make about coastal-city dwellers as a sign of your own deep-”seeded” provincial insecurity. As far as provincial insecurity goes, A2 was far worse than any other place I’ve lived before or since.
posted by Nick on March 1st, 2007 at 11:51 am eFair enough, one might say that. But they are meant to be sweeping generalizations about people with a denigrating “flyover” attitude toward the center of the country, not necessarily all city dwellers.
That’s not to say that I didn’t want to ruffle any feathers though, what fun would that be?
posted by dcwp on March 1st, 2007 at 12:10 pm eI hear you all. Everyone wants to limit someone else’s claim. In most ways people in the Midwest (and everyone in ann arbor, just give it time) are as sophisticated as people on the coasts– in some cases moreso: something about being oppressed incites creativity and insightfulness that a lot of coast people don’t have– or want. But this is true of all colonized peoples: the USA coasts still decide what gets said globally about the US, so they can represent the Midwest however they want to, which makes these very site-specific people very powerful, and nobody can do anything about it. They will insist that you work for them or– if you are very creative– they will offer you a deal in which the cachet of your location is included (so long as it is subservient to the site from which your image is being sold)– ie, New York or LA. So it ends up being: a band “from” Detroit is made accessible by New York to the world via publicity etc. (This happens even if the Detroit band is WAY more sophisticated than the NY promoters.) In this formula a Long Island exterminator can consider himself more sophisticated than an Ann Arbor sociology student.
But the worst are the pedestrians : people who hold down a street corner but who have never left New York– my Columbia MSW spouse asked a Bronx kid recently “Have you ever been outside of New York?”– to which he said “I have been to Manhattan.” Another kid said he was “from the South — Detroit” which was funny and sad, as I’m sure you will agree.
posted by toasty on March 2nd, 2007 at 3:09 am eAs usual, you’ve all got it wrong. The people on the coasts aren’t human at all: the West coast is entirely populated by brain-eating Barbitron Androids created in the mid-Seventies by Sherwood Schwartz, and the East coast is entirely inhabited by rapacious reptilian aliens from Neptune.
Wake up! They don’t find you provincial, they find you delicious!
posted by Nitro on March 2nd, 2007 at 8:58 am e“…the East coast is entirely inhabited by rapacious reptilian aliens from Neptune.”
Hey, thanks! That clears up a few mysteries about Mrs. Stucture-Dude!’s extended family. I knew they were fucking with me. Chosen people my left nut.
posted by Parking Structure Dude! on March 2nd, 2007 at 10:39 am eHaving grown up bicoastal (divorced parents — I spent school years with Mom in Los Angeles and summer/winter breaks with Dad in Boston), am I doubly inhuman? I never thought of Midwesterners as either provincial or delicious. I really didn’t think of them at all; the Midwest was just what I saw when I looked out the airplane window. Now I live here, and my friends and family back home (both homes) think I milk cows for breakfast, vote Republican, drive a tractor, and trudge through the snow 365 days a year. Well, looking outside, I guess the snow part isn’t too far-fetched…
posted by Emily on March 2nd, 2007 at 10:50 am eIn case it wasn’t clear above, my point is that Coasters are just totally clueless about the Midwest. Really, we should pity them for their ignorance.
posted by Emily on March 2nd, 2007 at 10:55 am eI appreciate your pity Emily. I’ll be thinking about how unfortunate I am to not know more about the Midwest when I’m biking at the beach tomorrow in 75-degree weather.
posted by Nick on March 2nd, 2007 at 11:12 am eI hope you enjoy your bike ride, Nick. Stop at Hot Dog on a Stick (just south of the Santa Monica Pier) and have a hot dog for me. I worked there in high school and never want to see another beach for as long as I live. Meanwhile, I’ll be having a much better hot dog for about half the price at Red Hot Lovers. LA is a nice place to be a tourist, but after having lived there for 22 years, I wash my hands of the place.
posted by Emily on March 2nd, 2007 at 11:55 am eWow, if a hot dog is twice as much in Santa Monica than Red Hot Lovers, it must cost a days pay.
RHL’s is overrated.
posted by Ypsidweller on March 2nd, 2007 at 12:46 pm etoasty and dcwp -
Well said. Extra bonus-points for name-dropping Jesus’ Son.
Although, personally, I really tend to identify more with “Great Lakes Region” than “Midwest”. I’m familiar with and can/do identify with Michigan (obviously), Wisconsin, Ontario, and even upstate New York; not the biggest fan of Ohio or Illinois, but Chicago is always familiar even though I’m not there that often. However, anything beyond that… I suppose I can relate in “fly-over country” solidarity, but not much else. I understand someone from, say, Oregon (West Coast but not really) more than someone from, oh, Iowa.
That said, I haven’t been on the West Coast much at all. I’m more familiar with the East, but I’ve met/been friends with locals from both. The main difference I’ve seen (purely anecdotal and probably BS) is that there’s a straightforward attitude from Midwesterners that isn’t always present in those from the coasts. Straightforward in that there’s less pretentious annoyance and a bit of humility. It’s present even with the west coast bible-belt crowd, and definitely with Detroit/UP population (comes with being an underdog all the time, I guess).
Talking to certain East Coasters, there’s often an underlying attitude of “well, where I come from is actually important and intellectual and you just don’t understand sophistication and taste”. Californians, same thing, but with more of a bent towards New-Age-y concepts (that, of course, we just can’t understand). In both cases, an elitism that just tastes horribly bitter on my tongue.
When it’s especially bad it’s almost like pandering towards my oh-so unfortunate uncivillized old-time upbringing. Usually it just lingers around the edges, especially in those who chose to go to U of M… but it comes through every now and then.
RDS:
Agreed on Madison. I’ve had nothing but enjoyable visits there.
posted by Anonymous on March 2nd, 2007 at 3:03 pm eI’ve spent a lot of time in both IC and A2, and there are a few main differences, including that rent is much cheaper in IC (to those in Ann Arbor, this would be that foreign concept of “reasonable rent.”) As for the previous comments, it’s my impression that IC has as much ethnic food as A2, and I think that the Writer’s Workshop is separate from an MFA program like Michigan’s (just my impression). But, like Tanner B said several days ago upthread, I too moved to A2 from IC, and that’s how I describe IC in A2: “It’s like A2, but smaller.”
posted by It'sAllOverrated on March 2nd, 2007 at 7:46 pm etoasty, Please let the young ones know more about this quote: “But this is true of all colonized peoples: the USA coasts still decide what gets said globally about the US, so they can represent the Midwest however they want to, which makes these very site-specific people very powerful, and nobody can do anything about it.”
Does this mean that LA and NYC LOVE the Nascar? And the Bush? And the Natural Light? And the musical score to “Deliverance”?
If the Midwest/non-coastal areas really mean nothing and is co-opted by the Coasters, than how the hell do people abroad get these ideas about Americans in general?
posted by cjc on March 2nd, 2007 at 10:37 pm eLargely from the media, which shows the midwest and the south loving these things. And who controls the media? I mean, people in Tennessee or Mississippi weren’t the ones making “The Dukes of Hazzard.”
posted by Chris on March 3rd, 2007 at 2:19 pm eIowa City’s nice enough, but living there made me miss Ann Arbor. To repeat much of what’s already been said, downtown IC is basically the South University area, full of college bars (of the “$5 pitcher - WHOO!” variety) with a handful of restaurants and bookstores. (Prairie Lights Books is a gem.)
The number of ethnic restaurants was growing when I left in 2005, but they pale to what you’d find here. And the movie scene was particularly disappointing, limited to the multiplexes, wide release “indies,” and whatever the student-run theater could get (if it wasn’t already available on video).
Overall, it’s pretty boring. And you’re trapped. There’s no nearby big city (Des Moines is even worse), unless you’re willing to drive 300 miles to Chicago. However, if you’re a grad student who needs to lock him or herself away to work on your thesis, that’s not necessarily a bad thing.
posted by Ian C. on March 4th, 2007 at 8:35 pm eI’m not even sure there was much “consensus” on that Metafilter page. They barely even talked about Iowa City compared to Ann Arbor, other than to say Iowa City is smaller. It was mostly about Raleigh and Durham. But it fits your attitude towards A2, I guess, to parse the barely-there comparison out of it.
posted by Pete on March 5th, 2007 at 3:40 am eI can measure the amount of time I’ve spent on either coast in weeks (maybe three of ‘em). I was playing trivia in a bar a little while ago, and one of the “current events” type questions was, “What is believed to have caused the smell in New York?” I was unfamiliar with this particular headline and was like, “Why is it even news that New York smells?”
posted by Dave on March 5th, 2007 at 12:50 pm eThe funny thing about New York, the people who are snobby are the wealthy, educated, social/financial climbers. Gawd. Go to Queens sometime where I live and everyone thinks Manhattanites (and people from much of Brooklyn) are just as bad as you Midwesterners do. I sometimes feel that Queens has more in common with Hamtramck than with Manhattan.
posted by Brandon on March 5th, 2007 at 6:39 pm eDo they say “hi” on the streets of Iowa City? Or do they stare right through you as if you don’t exist like here in Ann Arbor?
posted by invisible on March 6th, 2007 at 11:32 pm edid somebody say something?
posted by peter honeyman on March 7th, 2007 at 12:03 am eOK–that was funny.
posted by invisible on March 7th, 2007 at 8:01 am eSpeak up a little, please. Lots of noise coming from the other tables.
posted by seated customer on March 8th, 2007 at 11:04 am ea late response to the NASCAR / Natural Light / Deliverance question:
never heard of ‘em.
posted by toasty on March 10th, 2007 at 5:49 am e