Slow News Day
A reader considering a move to A2 asks what it’s like as a place for a couple in their thirties (presumably of a snarky enough sensibility to appreciate relentlessly negative blogs) to raise young children. We can probably all agree, “Overrated,” but for those of you in this situation, are you reasonably happy here anyway?
Having just moved here with a 2.5 year old (and being in my 30s myself), I’d rate A2 average-to-fair. It’s very hard to meet other couples with kids here as the weather isn’t conducive to the “park pickup” that happens between parent in other cities. I’ve found the childcare to be Ok, not great. Everyone raves about the schools, we’ll see. The other bummers are that the zoo is a 45 minute ride away, there is no aquarium nearby (the Shedd’s a 4 hour drive) and there are no coffeeshops that are kid-friendly (sorry to bring up the coffee issue again, but it would be nice to have some kid’s space in one of them). Also, many of the symphony, UMMA, etc events that are family-friendly tend to be for kids 4-6 and up, which doesn’t help teach young children about things like music, etc. That said, I have to give a shout out to the Downtown Ann Arbor Library system for great kid’s space and a wonderful storyteller (Laura) on Tuesday mornings and to Mothers & More, a great group for professional moms that regularly hosts moms-sans-kiddos events at local watering holes.
It’s the meeting other families that’s the hard part. If you were born and raised here, you have your niche (and don’t want to hear outsiders bitch about A2). If you are new to town and not working in a corporate environment, or only work with people whose children are 30 or who are not parents, then it’s difficult to connect. I’ve met the coolest women so far at Mothers & More. Mostly new folks to town.
posted by Transplant on February 1st, 2006 at 2:14 pmI think “young family with kids” is one of the best demographics to be in to live in AA, at least if you can afford a $200,000+ house. Safe city, reasonable transit, good schools, better than average cultural opportunities, decent job opportunities for experienced, educated people and turnover in the over-30 demographic seems less rapid than in the under-30 demographic. The worst demo for AA, IMO, is non-student, no kids under 30. Few non-grad students under 30 and turnover is rapid, and near-entry-level jobs are sparse.
posted by Scott T. on February 1st, 2006 at 2:23 pmTwo words about the Ann Arbor Schools: “lockdown” and “gunman”.
See Ypsi~dixit for what few details are available. The Ann Arbor News is of course worthless…
posted by daniel on February 1st, 2006 at 4:40 pmWhile I’m in my 30s, my partner and I don’t have kids. But we’re on a block here on the OWS that’s chock-a-block full of young families with kids from age 0-7. In the warmer months our block is like a playground–it’s nutty.
I think it’s hard to meet *anyone* here in the winter. Winter is hibernation time, and the only reason we see people out and about is when we walk our dog.
posted by Young OWSider on February 1st, 2006 at 5:27 pmone word for parents: arborparents. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arborparents . 500+ parents, helpful, good information, etc.
There’s news on the lockdown & ensuing confusion at Arbor Update.
posted by Edward Vielmetti on February 1st, 2006 at 6:19 pmOur demographic: me: 42; husband: 45; daughter 4.75.
Here’s the secret to meeting other parents with similarly-aged rugrats: pony up the coin for one session at Gymboree, ignore the Gymboree leader, conspire with other parents to form your own playgroup, quit Gymboree. Or do the same with Gari Stein’s Music for Little Folks music classes (my daughter started at 4-months old), but keep going to Gari’s. Or with Audrey Simon’s infant massage class.
I double the shout out to the AA Public Library’s kiddie programs.
My daughter has been a Symphony Family Concert series since she was 8-months old and has attended select adult concerts (Sweet Honey in the Rock, etc.) because she learned appropriate concert behavior at the Symphony.
In town, we go to the UM Museum of Art, the UM Natural History Museum, Gari Stein’s Music for Little Folks, the YMCA, the nature center, and the Ann Arbor Hands On Museum; in Toledo, the Zoo (it’s not that bad of a drive and kids usually catch a nap on the way home) and COSI; in Detroit, the Charles H. Wright Museum of African American History and the Detroit Institute of Arts (check out the family hand-outs in various galleries, they’re great). Both Toledo and Detroit are within a 45-minute drive. As for programming just for 4-8 year olds, do things anyway if your child won’t be bored by it. I used those types of things as an entre into a new subject and just did my own thing off to the side. “Science Camp” for toddlers and preschoolers at the Hands On are pretty good fun.
There are a bunch of child-friendly restaurants and eateries in town: Seva, Tio’s, Barry Bagels, Zingerman’s, Zingerman’s Road House, Kosmo’s… It isn’t haute cuisine but they provide crayons, Duplos, and kid’s menus. Even the “nicer” places (Grazi, Gandy Dancer, etc.) are pretty agreeable when it comes to kids at brunches and lunches, and at dinner if the kids are under control.
For coffeehouses, the Crazy Wisdom Tea Room has always welcomed us, Barry Bagels is always littered with kids (and they have a cool observation area for kids to watch bagels being made), Zingerman’s out back is pretty nice but watch out for the bees.
The schools are certainly above average, and if your kid is above average (aren’t they all?), there are a bunch of private schools for gifted kids. There’s a slew of Montessori schools, a Waldorf school, and a handful of charter schools if your local public school isn’t a match for you. For kids with different learning styles or special needs, Eastern’s education school is top-notch for finding the specialist you need.
With all the students, it’s generally pretty easy to score a babysitter; unfortunately, at $9-11 an hour, our dinners at the “nicer” places are over.
Downside: it’s a pretty white town. Multicultural/multiracial families like ours are few in number, fewer than same-sex parent families, from what I can tell. We’ve rarely encountered hostility, but it is a problem when my daughter is the only brown-skinned child in the room.
Downside: it ain’t cheap to live here.
Downside: Stereotypical Ann Arbor parents can engage in competitive parenting, their kid has to be in the *best* preschool, potty trained by 6-weeks, playing a miniature Suzuki violin at 2-years, etc. If you’re a more laid-back parent, it can be kind of tricky to negotiate those kinds of spoken and unspoken expectations. More than one set of eyebrows were raised when I didn’t start my daughter in preschool until she was 4.5 instead of on her 3rd birthday.
Downside: Ann Arbor likes to think it’s a lot more liberal and accepting than it really is. Thankfully, the college students force the issue and bring a lot to the community. I’d hate to think what this town would be like without the students.
Overall, we’re glad we’re raising our daughter here. There are plenty of opportunities for small children and families, and taking the initiative to form your own playgroup is pretty straight forward.
posted by BlogLurker on February 1st, 2006 at 8:37 pm1. Children don’t belong in coffeeshops. Buy a coffeemaker.
posted by badmood on February 2nd, 2006 at 12:10 am2. I can’t believe someone is actually complaining about a lack of space for children. This town is overrun by children, and their overly permissive parents.
3. As part of the under-30-non-grad-student population: how about more spaces for grown ups? grown ups without children?
Badmood - striking a blow for the non-breeders…?
posted by daniel on February 2nd, 2006 at 6:19 am1. Rubbish.
posted by Transplant on February 2nd, 2006 at 8:23 am2. This town is overrun by children age 18-26 with overly permissive parents… the point of making a space in coffeeshops is so that our children don’t bother you as you sit for your 3rd or 4th hour (and first and only coffee) working on your computer when you should be in a library. That way the kids are kept from annoying the other patrons who are so focused on using coffee shops as their personal offices. It’s a pretty simple solution.
3. I can’t believe someone is actually complaining about a lack of space for the under-30-non-grad-student population. Gee, with all of Ann Arbor’s romanticizing of it’s fabulous food/bar scene, outstanding adult-accessible cultural events, and being a “cool city” and all, you’d think there’d be enough to do.
ah, Ann Arbor. The picture of tolerance.
posted by tom on February 2nd, 2006 at 8:44 amPatience, badmood. Soon you’ll be either over 30, have a child, go to grad school, or move to Chicago (or all of the above).
posted by JCP2 on February 2nd, 2006 at 9:26 am… if coffeehouses didn’t want my business they wouldn’t offer WIFI, if they wanted kids, they’d build an indoor playground. Your “Happy Meal” is getting cold.
posted by Sketchy on February 2nd, 2006 at 9:27 amThe new Caribou on Stadium and Packard does have a small kids space, so you may see it happening more frequently in new coffeehouses. From a marketing perspective, it’s a cost-beneficial addition for them to make…just think of all the add on sales for juice, snacks, and consistent “coffee dates” that those folks have. For that matter McD’s is adding WIFI and television, so you will have plenty of other outlets for your enjoyment as well.
posted by Transplant on February 2nd, 2006 at 10:44 amI think Scott T. nicely summed things up. I can’t think of a better place in Michigan to procreate. If you have children and live downtown (I don’t know how you afford it but) kudos to you, and thank you for not raising your young in the suburbs.
It is amazing how a slow news day can turn the pro-development vs. anti-development talks into breeders vs. non-breeders. To the angry under-thirty, un-reproducers; stop hating, and it sounds as though you should really start attending more of our no-toddlers-or-parents meetings (hint: they’re held at any bar on most any weeknight).
posted by FAA on February 2nd, 2006 at 11:00 amDownside: it’s a pretty white town. Multicultural/multiracial families like ours are few in number, fewer than same-sex parent families, from what I can tell. We’ve rarely encountered hostility, but it is a problem when my daughter is the only brown-skinned child in the room.
BlogLurker, where do you live? I used to live on the SE side of town, which is more spread out than downtown, but also has many more minorities. Certainly there were some nights at the Mallets Creek library where there were more non-white faces than white faces.
However, my current neighborhood (closer to downtown) is pretty white, which I think is unfortunate. There are otherwise a wide range of families in my neighborhood, many of whom can be seen at the parks a good 8 months of the year.
posted by Becky on February 2nd, 2006 at 12:40 pmAs for the AA schools, they are….somewhat overrated. Dexter & Saline schools are at least just as good, but talk about “mostly white” towns! Unfortunately, although there are nice affordable houses in Ypsi & Willow Run & Ypsi Twp. (Lincoln Cons. Schools), their schools are a bit scary.
And another thumbs up for the local Mothers & More group (not exactly for “professional moms”, though): http://snow.prohosting.com/mmwash/
posted by Sandy on February 2nd, 2006 at 4:22 pmThanks for the tip on Mallets Creek, Becky. We’re closest to the main branch, but Mallets Creek is an easy drive. We’re in Ann Arbor Hills, south of Geddes, east of Washtenaw (SoGedEWa?) because we actually found a house we could afford here before we could find a comparable house in the OWS. We bought our house years ago with the hopes that as the older neighbors moved out, a more diverse set of neighbors would move in. Not quite the case, but it is getting better.
My daughter has been the only non-white at the Hands On Science Camps, and finding a non-full-time, non-all-white preschool was a real trick. We’re not affiliated with the Univ and their preschools never called us back. We found our perfect preschool, nonetheless, but it was harder than I’d expected.
posted by BlogLurker on February 2nd, 2006 at 4:44 pmBloglurker, I’d love to know what preschool that is. We’re moving my son from a very white preschool to one that seems more diverse, but that was a huge challenge in looking around. Not sure how to get you my info offline?
posted by Transplant on February 2nd, 2006 at 5:29 pmAt one point, not so very long ago, the superintendent of the Dexter school district said that there were zero black families there. A few black kids with white adoptive or foster parents, but no black families with school age kids in the entire school district.
Things may have changed by now, but probably not very much.
posted by Larry Kestenbaum on February 2nd, 2006 at 7:29 pm“I can’t believe someone is actually complaining about a lack of space for the under-30-non-grad-student population. Gee, with all of Ann Arbor’s romanticizing of it’s fabulous food/bar scene, outstanding adult-accessible cultural events, and being a “cool city†and all, you’d think there’d be enough to do. ”
Gee, y’think Ann Arbor’s options for the under 30 set might be… Overrated? *Why… How… How did I get here?*
And from above: Infant massage? Fucking A, bourgies…
posted by js on February 2nd, 2006 at 7:53 pmTransplant, we’re very happy with Heartstart Waldorf Preschool. It’s a small, home-based preschool with Waldorf-certified teachers. Contact the Steiner School for the phone number.
Kids include an Indian Muslim boy, a Dominican/Caucasian girl, an Israeli Jewish boy, a Swiss boy, a pagan girl, a handful of white kids, and our Eritrean/AfricanAmerican/Caucasian girl. Parental involvement is encouraged to broaden cultural perspectives (holidays, etc.) and to help with special projects.
JS: don’t knock it till you’ve tried it; massaging a neonate is different from massaging an adult. It’s a pretty nice way to connect with an infant, especially in adoption or foster situations. Everyone likes a massage, and it’s one way to meet other parents with similarly-aged kids.
posted by BlogLurker on February 2nd, 2006 at 8:15 pmA pagan? Any wiccan folk? Maybe a few Raelians, perhaps? How about some French? Laplanders always seem to be overlooked in the diversity game.
Sheesh…
posted by psst on February 2nd, 2006 at 8:36 pm[quote]At one point, not so very long ago, the superintendent of the Dexter school district said that there were zero black families there. A few black kids with white adoptive or foster parents, but no black families with school age kids in the entire school district.
Things may have changed by now, but probably not very much.[/quote]
Umm When they mention “non white” diversity, I get the feeling that aint talkin bout no black folks.
posted by Anonymous on February 2nd, 2006 at 9:30 pmJS - clearly, you have never had an infant with gas. They ALL get gas, and it hurts like hell. Infant massage is simply responsible parenting in that it helps your newborn pass the gas while enjoying positive, reenforcing touch from their parents. We do it because we love our kids, not because we think we are special or are particularly rich.
The babies we met in both infant massage classes play with our kids still, now that they are 5 and 3, respectively, and the parents we met had a like mind towards actually giving a shit about their kids, touching them, and helping them grow - while also making sure their developing digestive systems can fart out all that new gas and stay pain free.
posted by Hans on February 2nd, 2006 at 10:55 pmoh my god, infant-massage-as-responsible-parenting?? i am truly in hell.
posted by badmood on February 2nd, 2006 at 11:26 pmnone dare call it burping
posted by peter honeyman on February 2nd, 2006 at 11:45 pmPsst: Lighten up. It’s just an example that diverse preschools exist in this town–and diverse in more than just skin color. If there were wiccans, Raelians, French, or Lapps at our preschool, we’d welcome them, too.
Peter, badmood, and js: Burps and gas are two vastly different things. If you can relieve an infant’s gas or colic any other way, more power to you. If, on the other hand, you’ve suffered along with a baby as she or he screams for the third or fourth consecutive hour, you’d try anything to relieve the pain, too, even bourgeois infant massage. While I won’t put infant massage on par with safety gates and electrical covers when it comes to responsible parenting, I was sure glad I knew how to do it properly when my own daughter was suffering. And my only point was that it was another way to meet other parents with whom to form a playgroup.
posted by BlogLurker on February 3rd, 2006 at 8:55 amFuck me. Baby talk? I come here to get away from you people!
And pagan babies? Didn’t Elmore Leonard already do that one?
Send all the babies to Mongolian Barbecue, ginsu the fuck out of them, fry them up all crispy and feed them to the jackasses from Canton and Saline.
Babies? Oh Jesus….
posted by Parking Structure Dude! on February 3rd, 2006 at 10:00 amI’m pretty baby-averse myself, but a lot of people seem to like them.
posted by ann arbor is overrated on February 3rd, 2006 at 10:14 amBabies have their place and, as one who came late to parenting, I’m a firm believer that babies, toddlers, preschoolers, and kids absolutely do not belong everywhere. You can be damn sure that my kid is going to behave or, if she isn’t able to, we will leave and not subject those around us to a whiney, cranky, out-of-control kid. Believe me, I spent 37 years rolling my eyes at un-restrained kids in inappropriate venues.
Unfortunately, not all parents believe the same and are under the very mistaken impression that their brats need to “express themselves” where ever and whenever, that discipline is a dirty word (let’s all remember that the Latin root means ‘teaching,’ not beating the hell out of ‘em even if we want to), that everyone loves the antics of their spawn. Bullshit. I’ll be the first to defend the rights of the non-parenting to a quiet cuppa joe, an dinner without flung peas or screeching, and to not hear about the latest antic of my kid no matter how cute or profound I may happen to believe it is.
posted by BlogLurker on February 3rd, 2006 at 11:15 amParking Structure Dude!,
Um, the initial topic of discussion was about how Ann Arbor rates as a place to raise families, which would include discussion of babies. There are plenty of other topics dying for your insight…
posted by Transplant on February 3rd, 2006 at 11:57 amI’m no breeder-hater, but I’m going to have to second BlogLurker on that one - children do not belong everywhere, and they belong exactly nowhere public if they can’t behave (are prone to temper-tantrums, whining, etc.).
It’s one thing if you’ve got a colicky baby and you pop into a coffee shop to buck yourself up with caffeine (a case for which most of us outside of Parking Structure Dude! would appear to have some sympathy), but quite another when you’ve got a whining 3-year-old - I think that latter case is the sort for which people here have so little understanding, and with good reason.
We - if I may speak for the over-30 non-marrieds without kids - feel that we can’t necessarily do better raising kids (probably part of the reason we don’t try), but we’ve seen kids who are better behaved than yours, so we know it can be done, and that if you CAN’T do it, at very least you shouldn’t subject the rest of the world to the results of your bad parenting.
As a native Ann Arbor-ite who now lives in Germany, one of the great tradeoffs in restaurant dining and coffee-shop sitting here is no non-smoking section and the presence of generally well-behaved dogs in exchange for no annoying children whatsoever, or at least there are no children who draw attention to themselves by their bahavior - in 18 months I haven’t noticed a single one that I can recall.
In fact, perhaps it’s just my imagination, but the children here seem remarkably mature and well-behaved, with the exception of teenage boys in large unsupervised groups - but that’s universal.
Let’s see: better behaved dogs and better behaved children - could there actually be a METHOD to this madness???
So to emend what BadMood said, children only belong in coffee shops if they are well-heeled. In the early 70s, my mother found (what seemed to me then) like hundreds of places to take us, and that before the coffee shop was invented - we just had the Washtenaw Dairy. Even in winter, it was sledding in the park, or the Natural History Museum, not sitting in some boring coffee shop with our wannabe hipster parents.
Now THAT would have sucked.
posted by daniel on February 3rd, 2006 at 1:03 pmSandy writes:
“As for the AA schools, they are….somewhat overrated. Dexter & Saline schools are at least just as good, but talk about “mostly white†towns! Unfortunately, although there are nice affordable houses in Ypsi & Willow Run & Ypsi Twp. (Lincoln Cons. Schools), their schools are a bit scary. ”
Scary? Because there’s *too much* color perhaps?
posted by Ex-Ypsian on February 4th, 2006 at 9:49 amI find it pathetic that Ann Arborite yammer on about “diversity” while mantaining this attitude toward their eastern neighbors…
For the life of me I can’t understand why a preschooler really needs exposure to ethnic and cultural “diversity.” Raise the kid in a loving home and the child will have all the social skills needed to fit into a multi cultural environment.
posted by Bob Dobbs on February 4th, 2006 at 11:26 amBobDobbs, it’s easy to think like that when most everyone looks like you. You’re saddled with that invisible backpack of white privilege that comes from being in the majority culture, and it’s got you held down like a millstone.
It’s not about “social skills” or being polite or knowing how to behave when Mom’s grabbing a quick espresso at the coffeeshop. It’s about truly understanding that one’s race, culture, religion–whatever–is not the only one or the only “good” one, that all are valid and worthy expressions of one’s personhood, one’s history, the essence of who one is–not some exoticism to be seen at the mall or your rare trip to Detroit or Ypsilanti, then forgotten by the time you’re home.
Of course, all children should be raised in loving homes. That’s a given. All children should be taught social skills.
But exactly when do you think children should be “exposed” to people of other skin colors, different religious beliefs and practices, and different cultural traditions? Knowing that very early racial and cultural awareness can begin as early as age three, it simply doesn’t make any sense to wait until a child is much older than preschool.
With racial and cultural awareness and identification comes the ability to label the Other; once the Other is identified, it’s not a big step to prejudice and that invisible backpack. If a child knows only same-race/same-religion/same-culture people until Mom or Dad decides the child is ready to meet the Other, how can she or he begin to learn real inclusiveness? Take off your backpack, BobDobbs, you might be able to see clearly enough to realize that Ann Arbor isn’t nearly as multicultural as it likes to think it is, and that raising a child to embrace true diversity begins when they are very, very young.
See:
Root, “The Biracial Baby Boom,” Racial and Ethnic Identity in School Practices, 1999.
Derman-Sparks, Higa, and Sparks, “Children, Race and Racism: How Race Awareness Develops,” Interracial Books for Children, 1980.
Ramsey, “Young Children’s Thinking About Ethnic Differences,” Children’s Ethnic Socialization, 1987.
Tatum, Why are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria?, 1997.
Reddy, Crossing the Color Line: Race, Parenting, and Culture, 1994.
posted by BlogLurker on February 4th, 2006 at 1:51 pmI’d have to agree that early exposure is key. I have Mormon classmates from Utah who are some of nicest folks you ever want to meet, but really miss the target when it comes to cultural awareness or sensitvity.
But I would have to say that raising your child in the perfect environment is overrated as well. Perhaps what made Einstein Einstein and Picasso Picasso is the slap the got from their mother,or the contusion they got from playing on the cement playground, and not the Mozart that was played to them in the womb.
posted by murder on February 4th, 2006 at 2:59 pmWe moved here from the NYC suburbs several years ago. AA is a MUCH better place to raise kids than where we were. You want white? Try the East Coast ‘burbs. Also rich and flaunting it in unattractive ways.
My kids thrive here. And actually the schools are better here. There’s more opportunity, and lots more academic press. That is, smart parents pushing their kids to do well in schools. Where we were, there were rich parents buying their kids tutors. Different atmosphere.
posted by AAMOM on February 5th, 2006 at 11:09 amAnn Arbor is a great place to bring up kids.
True, the public schools are overrated, especially considering the expenditure per student. Most parents I know think the middle schools are the weak link in the system. The math-science instruction at that level is pretty uneven and the foreign language instruction is a joke. On the other hand, the elementary schools do a reasonable job of teaching the basics and the two big high schools have excellent music, theater, athletics, and AP offerings. Kids who get involved with one of these activities usually do well. Those who don’t get involved or are quiet tend to get overlooked. The special ed program at all levels has had an especially poor reputation. An AAPS report on special education about 5 years ago was quite scathing and made a number of recommendations, none of which have been seriously attempted.
There are a number of alternatives, though. Admission to the alternative public high school is by lottery (1 in 3 admitted) and it has a not completely unwarranted reputation as a stoner high, but a number of kids I know prospered there. There is a range of parochial and private schools. Emerson and Greenhills are well known for their academic standards and have managed to avoid some of the unsavory aspects of private school class stratification through extensive needs-based scholarship programs. The Waldorf schools (the lower and upper Rudolf Steiner schools) offer a very interesting curriculum with an emphasis on humanities, arts and music .
Outside of the schools there is a wealth of programs for kids in just about any area you can think of — sports, art, music, theater, dance, community service. Just about every neighborhood has a park where kids can congregate and play basketball or tennis, and a few have ice skating and sledding. The city is safe. When kids get to be a little older, you don’t have to worry about them taking public transportation.
The gritty industrial city I grew up in had none of these things and the schools were dismal. I’ve been struck by the number of kids who grew up in Ann Arbor who have gone on to interesting lives as foreign correspondents, documentary film makers, screen writers, NPR commentators, and so on. In my high school a stretch at the state pen was a more common career prospect.
It’s hard to think of a better place than Ann Arbor to bring up kids. It’s one of the best things about the city.
posted by kjc on February 5th, 2006 at 7:00 pmhere, here to daniel. my sentiments exactly.
posted by badmood on February 5th, 2006 at 11:48 pmBlogLurker, you had me, then you lost me. While I appreciate your point, I tend to agree that good parenting is much more important than ensuring ethnic diversity in schools. That is, raising your kids to be kind, tolerant, welcoming people is all the preparation they need for adult life in a multiethnic world. I currently live in a city (Los Angeles) where extensive exposure to other races and cultures is absolutely unavoidable, yet tolerance and openness are hardly a given among the people you meet. Racial and cultural tension don’t go away if kids grow up in intolerant, suspicious homes.
And please, no academic citations; they remind me of grad school.
posted by Nick on February 6th, 2006 at 5:59 pmBlogLurker, your complaint is not really about the absence of communities of color. It’s about the absence of upper / middle-class communities of color. You describe an uber-NPR stomping grounds (geographic & cultural) and lament its lack of “diversity.” Many children of color live in (e.g.) NW Ann Arbor and in the Bryant-Pattengill school district (that’s near the Malletts Creek branch library). Though part of the celebrated A2 school district, B-P Elementary too is considered “scary” by many A2 parents. Guess why? Poor kids. Many of whom are of color. And you’re right: You wont meet ‘em at kiddie symphony or baby massage class, or even at day care. That’s about class — a dimension glaringly absent from the “diversity” conjured in this thread.
posted by a2escapee.nyc on February 6th, 2006 at 6:59 pmNick, thanks for reading all the way through but please remember this entire thread is about raising kids in Ann Arbor, not about what makes good parenting. Of course kindness, respect, and a welcoming heart are necessary traits to teach a child, that’s a given in my book.
The point I’m trying to make, as the white mother in a multiracial/multicultural family, is that my daughter’s healthy self-development requires more than just being taught to be nice. For my daughter to have a complete sense of her entire self, she must be around other kids who aren’t white. And finding a part-time preschool to meet those needs was difficult. Had we opted for a full-time preschool, we would have had significantly more choices for a truly diverse preschool experience for her, but she simply wasn’t ready for full-time then.
Sorry about the citations but I know that lots of white folks don’t have the foggiest notion about racial development in young children; I wasn’t trying to shove text books down your or anyone’s throat or sound too dicty, just trying to provide some reading if anyone was interested.
And you’re right a2escapee.nyc, Ann Arbor is a very classist town. But know that there are plenty of non-white folks at the family symphony, and we met some of our dearest friends, also non-white, at baby massage.
posted by BlogLurker on February 6th, 2006 at 8:35 pmMy husband and I think Ann Arbor is a very good place to raise kids. The preschool years can be trying initially, but if someone is seeking diversity and interactions the coop nurseries are a good place to start, Stone School, Dixboro etc. We are particularly pleased with the public schools, the teachers have been responsive and interested, with nice breadth to their curriculum. Ann Arbor is a safe place, with a lot programs and events.
posted by Emilia on February 7th, 2006 at 3:01 amOur child goes to Bryant, which, says the principal, is the most diverse student body in the system, ethnically, racially, and economically and it has really been a good experience. Living single in grad school is Ann Arbor can really be a cold experience, and it has been a pleasure living in town with children.
Ann Arbor is a terrible hole of a suburb, chock full of overpriced, mediocre restaurants, pretentious pud-whackers, Emerald ash borers, and that is about it. Your kids may very well grow up to hate you for living there.
Please consider moving.
posted by Hate Ann Arbor on February 7th, 2006 at 9:54 amThanks, Hate Ann Arbor, I couldn’t agree with you more. It may have been a good place to raise kids 10 years ago, but no longer. “Diversity” is a huge joke, that is, unless your choices are limited to the state of Michigan.
Oh, and “fag” seems to be an acceptable insult here. That’s creepy.
posted by SweetJesusIHateAnnArbor on February 7th, 2006 at 12:46 pmI think “fag” is going to be an acceptable insult pretty much anywhere you have a sizable population of frat boys, no?
posted by Dave on February 7th, 2006 at 2:03 pmAnn Arbor used to be a very small city which was about as racially segregated as other similar places. Today the Ann Arbor metro area rates low on standard spatial segregation scales because (1) the traditional black ghetto (Kerrytown area) was displaced, and (2) huge numbers of newcomers have overwhelmed whatever old rules and mores that were in place.
However, at the same time, Ann Arbor has fallen more and more into the orbit of metro Detroit, and a lot of the newcomers to town (especially into newer areas) are coming from the Detroit suburbs, and bringing with them the racial attitudes they learned there.
Detroit is just about the most highly segregated metro area in the nation, starting in the 1920s when the entire black population was tightly confined to a small section on the east side. That confinement was sustained with ruthless efficiency by a partnership between local government (including police) and business (especially realtors).
The “success” of this confinement strategy was that metro Detroit had zero examples of stable integrated neighborhoods, zero experience of black and white families living side by side, zero integrated schools. So when the confinement broke down in the 1960s, and the overpopulated east side ghetto exploded outward, whites fled in terror. Whole square miles changed over from 100% white to 100% black in a year.
To this day, many white folks in the Detroit suburbs, even people who are intelligent and well-meaning, have appallingly racist instincts about people and places. A few black faces on a street or at a mall mean it’s “dangerous” and therefore off limits for themselves and their families. By contrast, Chicagoans and New Yorkers certainly don’t react so strongly, and on so little evidence.
No surprise that people raised in Oakland County suburbs who come to Ann Arbor see schools like Bryant as not a suitable place for their children. And, unfortunately, vaguely expressed negative ideas like that which are founded in racism tend to be contagious. When a lot of your white friends are avoiding a place, you tend to think there must be some good reason for it.
posted by Larry Kestenbaum on February 7th, 2006 at 2:31 pmYou can imagine how excited my husband and I were to discover that there is a standing provision on our property (home) that states that the house cannot be rented or sold to anyone of “African origin”. This is a provision that was set by the original owners in 1924 that, thankfully, according to our attorney, is null due to civil rights legislation. The records folks at the city and Washtenaw county were horrified, but I guess it’s not that uncommon to find those sorts of restrictions buried in the records.
Anyway, there’s a history in this town, as there are in many cities. My neighbor called Ann Arbor “the most liberal city in the US”…an enormous joke in my book…but I really think it’s a city that doesn’t have a sense of its own opportunity for development because it’s so enamored of what it was in the 60’s (or whenever it was so ‘liberal’).
posted by Transplant on February 7th, 2006 at 2:43 pmHello, Hate Ann Arbor, The kids love this town, probably more than we the parents. Believe it or not, even with mediocre restaurants, invasive insects,etc, it’s been good. True, people can be supercilious,and it would be nice if it were warmer, but there are a lot of options and experiences that are not so easily accessed in other communities.
posted by emilia on February 7th, 2006 at 3:44 pmThat racially restrictive covenant is void, not due to civil rights legislation as such, but due to the 1948 U.S. Supreme Court decision Shelley v. Kraemer.
Typically, these covenants were included in original deeds (from the developer to the first owner) in 1920s subdivisions all over Southeast Michigan, as well as other parts of the country. Local historians tell me that some Ann Arbor subdivisions had covenants prohibiting Jews as well as African-Americans.
I’d like to see some research documenting the extent of restrictive covenants in Ann Arbor. If you’re willing to let me know what subdivision your property is in, I can add it to my notes which I hope will benefit some future researcher on the subject.
Obviously all the deed records are in my office, but that’s millions of pages.
posted by Larry Kestenbaum on February 7th, 2006 at 5:18 pmI’ve been through scores of the deed books, and more commonly found phrasing excluding sale “to anyone not of the Caucasian race.” I’ve thought about just the project you’re talking about, Larry, and hope to convince someone to take it up soon.
posted by Dale on February 7th, 2006 at 6:06 pmLarry, it’s Granger and Bixby’s Addition. Is that the info you need?
posted by Transplant on February 9th, 2006 at 7:55 amYup, thanks.
posted by Larry Kestenbaum on February 9th, 2006 at 10:26 amWe live in Dexter; have two little ones; and yes, we’re transplants from the Detroit hinterlands (although we actually lived in Detroit proper - imagine that - not a very ‘integrated neighborhood’ over there either, as Larry mentioned. We were pretty much the only whites, or at least the only young whites with kids).
We moved here specifically to find a cool place to raise our kids. We wanted to get away from the sprawl and the noise of Motown too - frankly, we got sick of driving past liquor stores and lottery billboards.
It’s kind of been an experiment for us - out here in Dexter, we’re still feeling a bit like rural pioneers (as opposed to urban ones, like we were in Detroit). The racial homogenity is a drawback - obviously in Dexter, and yes, even Ann Arbor. But Dexter’s small town vibe is really appealing. And the super close proximity to Ann Arbor kind of gives us the best of both worlds. (We’ll see how the Dexter schools work out in a few years.)
But the one thing that really sells this part of Michigan - especially living in Dexter - is all the open spaces, lakes, trails, parks and so forth. I’m suprised no one’s mentioned this - yes, the coffee shops aren’t that kid-friendly, and the liberal reputation of the area is more than a bit overblown these days (I suspect this may be a national trend though, disturbing a thought as that is). But, this is a beautiful part of Michigan (especially Western Washtenaw county).
I’m talking about the Metroparks, Pinkney Recreation area, Waterloo, Independence Lake, etc. If you have kids, you owe it to yourself to check these out - opportunities like these offer a special kind of ‘environmental diversity’ for children; that is, kids should see more in their everyday environment than just strip malls, suburbs and retail. Just head west on Huron Road. In about 20 minutes (past A2 downtown), you’ll be in the country. For real.
Also, if you’re looking for a decent kid-friendly coffeeshop, check out Dexter’s Foggy Bottom. They’re about a minute or so west of Huron & Zeeb (off of Huron, which is called Dexter-Ann Arbor Rd. at that point.) It’s unfortunately in a strip-mall, but the owners are great and it’s very laid back (with plenty of space for kids to be kids).
posted by Cool Dexter on February 9th, 2006 at 10:49 pmWe (30something parents of multicultural children) will be moving to Ann Arbor soon. So I thank those of you who actually provided information, as opposed to sociopathic invective.
I grew up in New York City, and had the misforune to live in LA– the most segregated place I’ve ever lived in, why, I think there is SO much intolerance there. I don’t think you can learn tolerance without exposure, to different ways of being and doing things. As is probably very evident from many of the posts on this site.
Our kids were born in Portland, OR, another young, hip city. But still very kid-friendly, maybe due to it’s growing multicultural population, because the “child-free” zones smack to me of — white European culture. Look at it, everyone is segregated not just by “race” and income, but by age as well. Maybe if some of these non-breeders took a semester abroad, in a non-European country, they’d be exposed to quite a different set of values, and even tolerance. Or maybe it’s too late for them.
I’m also an acupuncturist, and my Chinese doctors/teachers all performed daily massages on their children as a routine to improve digestion and immunity. There’s also a whole branch of pediatric massage in Chinese Medicine that’s used in place of acupuncture needles. Also common in Mayan health practices.
posted by pioneerspirit on February 13th, 2006 at 3:03 amMy postings to this thread were at least intended to provide information; I’m sorry if you found them too polemical. I didn’t want to go into great detail about my own family, but I’m married, and we have a mixed-race child in the Ann Arbor public schools. I think Ann Arbor is a good place to live for families like ours.
posted by Larry Kestenbaum on February 13th, 2006 at 9:35 amOh pionnerspirit…Ann Arbor is no Portland. Just warning you…
posted by Transplant on February 14th, 2006 at 2:13 pmI didn’t mean anything you wrote, I found that very informative, and will be asking friends about Dexter, would love to be near nature. But diversity is important too, maybe through friends and schools…
Portland is no Portland either, lol, in terms of how people idealize it. But to put things into perspective, we’re currently moving from UNL- Nebraska (husband is a chemist), so it’ll be a welcome change. First thing my husband said when he was there interviewing was: “I saw two guys holding hands!” I miss that kind of tolerance, and am looking forward to the change. Nevertheless, thanks for the warning.
As for racially restrictive covenants, is there anywhere they didn’t exist? I know they were present in CA, and OR. In Portland, they were enforced as late as the 60s and 70s. Portland has changed a lot in the last 10-15 years, or so I heard, but it’s not truly liberal. Somebody else here noted that this may be indicative of the time we live in, scary but true. But there, “liberal” and “progressive” seems to refer more to fashion, shoes and hair color (as in pink or blue) rather than ideology.
posted by pioneerspirit on February 14th, 2006 at 10:28 pmI lived in Portland for 8 years and it changed heaps in that time as well. It’s a city/state that, like Ann Arbor, can view itself as the liberal belly button of the world (although I’d give it props over A2 any day). But I’d move back there in a nanosecond. Congrats on your move and I hope you find it well here. I think that Portland has some of the most progressive land use practices, city planning, civil rights legislation, civic engagement and community involvement I’ve ever seen, and that’s having lived in SF, Seattle and abroad. It’s not perfect, but damn, they work at it. And if you don’t like it, you can sure as hell work to change it. The biggest thing that bugged me about Portland was that it was sometimes *too* process-oriented in the community-sphere (like “this is the 16th design meeting for the new Hollywood library, please come and give your comments”…while we were waiting for the new library). Seattle was a city that was controlled by a few high-powered folks (like many big cities), but if you have a good idea in Portland, you can generally make it happen. I worked in the nonprofit community there and was constantly amazed at the innovation and thinking that worked to make the community develop. There’s a lot A2 could learn from a town like PDX…
But it will be a switch from Nebraska, no doubt
. Welcome!
posted by Transplant on February 15th, 2006 at 4:47 pmWelcome to town, transplant. Yeah, it’s overrated; yeah, it has its issues; yeah, it ain’t what it used to be. But Ann Arbor does have a lot going for it and, after living in Nebraska, I’m sure you know that your hometown is what you make of it. We like it here. I hope you do too.
posted by BlogLurker on February 16th, 2006 at 9:54 amAnn Arbor seems to be dominated by two populations: The grownups, and the kids. The two are more alike than they’d care to admit. To those of us living outside AA, we see the city as an island of white, upper-middle-class folk who are forever lecturing the rest of us on issues of race and poverty. If that sounds like you, you’ll have no problem getting along in AA.
Sure, I know, that oversimplifies things. There are plenty of people in AA who are of middle income, and not all the students are dreadlocked greens clad in hemp clothing who drone on endlessly about social justice while living on mummy and daddy’s money.
And during the summer, when the kids are off throwing rocks at IMF conferences or following their favorite jam band on tour, Ann Arbor can be a lovely place to live.
posted by mike on February 22nd, 2006 at 11:57 amnice nice!
posted by Clarissa on February 23rd, 2006 at 9:02 amThank you all for you welcoming advice. I agree with Transplant about Portland’s obssessive politicizing, but also loved it, having also lived in Seattle…. I really did love that about PDX, so many people wanting to make things better, great innovative ideas, everything always considered and changing. I really loved that.
And like Bloglurker said, it’s what you make of it. We’ll be leaving nice friends behind in Lincoln, so many good qualities: friendliness, optimism, genuine commitment to community (but not for change–very different from PDX).
I have a good feeling about AA, i’m sure it’ll be lovely, and I hope i’ll earn the right to gripe about it some day too. ;-P
posted by pioneerspirit on February 27th, 2006 at 12:49 amIts earthy here, beware. I grew up here in the 70’s and 80’s, little more small town then, and people didn’t sweat the small stuff like they do now. However, that is pretty much a result of the influx of people to town through the gateways of the University. Anyhow, back then I don’t think people were doing a census on the nation of origin of their Kids peers groups, parents were more about letting their kids develop their friendships with who ever happened to live down the block or around the corner. As a new breeder in my 30s I don’t worry about where I can go with or without my kids, life is way too short for past times like that. I still live in Washtenaw County and take advantage of Ann Arbor’s trappings without the guilt of paying to be a constituent of people who think running a city government is the equivalent of an intro to philosophy class. Anyhow, long story short, its not a bad place to raise a kid, but I’m biased when answering that being a local product myself. One thing that you should not forget is that savy kids become savy teenagers. Growing up in a major college town and the fact all those college bound kids are coming out of the schools, an adolescent here is going to be exposed to things at a much younger age because of not oly what they find in their town, but what their friends’ older brothers or sisters, or even their own for that matter, bring back home and expose them to.
Oh, isms are like belly buttons, you would think everyone should have them, but one day you’ll meet someone who doesn’t, don’t ask why!
posted by CUTTER on February 27th, 2006 at 10:12 pmPlease remember Ann Arbor is part of Michigan, home of Michigan Militia and truck loads of born-again communities. I am a naturalized citizen of an Asian background and I remember eating with my wife and baby in a restaurent near Briarwood. This nice middle-age preacher leaned over to praise my “beautiful family” and then proceeded to declare that Asian immigration has degraded the Euro heritage of America and thus brought down the “moral standard”. I am relieved to learn that he is only passing through Ann Arbor to go back to his North Michigan home/church.
Ann Arbor may not be the most tolerant and mulit-cultural place on earth but by Michigan standard, a true gem. I know of horror stories about white kids’ hostility toward foriegn born or minority natives in school. But that’s more about Michigan than Ann Arbor. So before moving to Ann Arbor, have a clear head about why on earth you need to move to or stay in Michigan in the first place. If you need diversity but have to live in Michigan and you need to be in a reasonably advanced civilization to feel safe, Ann Arbor is the only choice. Stand on Nixon and Plymouth and watch the motorist passing, you will see more that 50% Asians, East Indians, blacks, whatever. And at least this town buses the minority pupils from SE side to King Elementary to mix up with more affluent NE kids. A poster was right, maybe the diversed UM student and faculty body kept Ann Arbor’s civilization a tad above that of Michigan.
For me, I am glad I don’t live in Michigan any more. But I do miss Ann Arbor - parks, bike trails, Kerrytown concert house, Hills Auditorium, Zingermann’s, central campus, M Statium, downtown Borders, Gari’s Music for Little Folks - it’s middle America with an intellectual twist. And if you are thickskinned about being non-white/non-straight/non-Christian/non-whatever, it’s good life, as life in America generally is.
posted by Creamer on February 28th, 2006 at 3:58 amas a student at pioneer high school, and someone who has lived in ann arbor all my life, i would just like to say i love it here. yes, there are drawbacks, but those will exist no matter where you go, and the drawbacks i see have already been posted, so i’m not going to go into specifics. i am downtown a lot, and i see people of all ages with places to enjoy themselves, so i don’t really think that finding a place for children especially is an issue. there were many places my parents took me as a small child, and i’m sure there are still some around-it’s just a matter of finding them, which admittedly may not be easy. neighborhoods are great places to find friends-for parents and children-especially in the summer, so hold out hope through the winter.
posted by Emma on March 13th, 2006 at 11:26 pmAnn Arbor is a great place for wealthy Liberals. If the hypocrisy of the last statment doesn’t bother you, it probably your kind of place..
posted by John on August 15th, 2006 at 11:57 pmhypocrisy?
whatsamatter, john, we don’t wear sandwich boards announcing our guilt?
posted by peter honeyman on August 16th, 2006 at 12:44 amI know it my kind of place!
posted by Young OWSider on August 16th, 2006 at 5:54 amfuck having kids!!! do you really want to bring a kid up in this awful country!! theres no hope for them.
posted by antwan on December 6th, 2007 at 10:51 pm