ann arbor is overrated.

Is Ann Arbor Overrated?

Urban Oasis offers his acerbic account of “Is Ann Arbor Overrated?” day in Mayor Hieftje’s class in the department of Public Policy. Among the highlights:

First he offered a plaque with the outline of Michigan’s peninsulae, adorned with a white wine glass (which he “dinged” with his finger for effect), an award Ann Arbor won for the region’s best tasting water. He followed that with one won for bikability, one for his own good work, and, in his estimation, the most complete, objective, scientific evaluation of cities ever done, a Froemmer’s guide that rated Ann Arbor as one of the top ten places in America to live.

The conclusion? No matter “‘what a couple people on a web site might say,’ Ann Arbor was not overrated.”

68 Responses to “Is Ann Arbor Overrated?”

Hah, that just makes me want to offer an edited version of the old “mathematical proof that women are evil” joke, starting with the propositions that Ann Arbor takes money and money is the root of all evil (somehow a theme for me these days, sorry Ypsidixit readers)
posted by Anna on November 30th, 2005 at 12:00 pm
The best tasting water? That’s why I have an R/O unit hooked up beneath the kitchen sink. That “crap from the tap” will kill goldfish…
posted by Sketchy on November 30th, 2005 at 12:12 pm
Poor people shouldn’t live in Ann Arbor. Wow. Good thing my parents built up equity in that slum Rochester before moving me here so many years ago.
posted by HNG on November 30th, 2005 at 2:42 pm
I kind of doubt Heiftje would actually say “poor people shouldn’t live in Ann Arbor.” While that may be how Dale interpreted it, I doubt it was a verbatim quote.

Be fair for fuck’s sake.
posted by OFWinsurgent on November 30th, 2005 at 3:13 pm
I wonder if it’s the state-record toxicity in the water that adds to the flavour? Eau De Ford? (ting)
posted by leighton on November 30th, 2005 at 3:13 pm
As the other half of the Guest Peanut Gallery, what I found most interesting about the class was that nobody seemed willing to state “overrated” or “not overrated” until the Mayor started whipping out concrete ratings. Best-tasting water in Michigan? Bike City USA? A phone-book sized analysis ranks A2 second highest city in America for quality of life? Once people actually saw some ratings, everybody in the class seemed to come down strongly on the side of “yes, overrated”. While the Mayor seemed to be intending to use these to show that “people who use science” justify all the high opinions of Ann Arbor, it had definitely the opposite effect on the class.
posted by Murph on November 30th, 2005 at 3:19 pm
Ford is downriver from here, for the record. Can we have some intellectual honesty in some of these discussions?
posted by OFWinsurgent on November 30th, 2005 at 3:20 pm
No, no - It’s “poor people should not own homes in Ann Arbor”. By that I think the mayor insinuates poor people are welcome to pay sky high rent here, and are free to make the decision whether to fall two months behind on rent, or buy groceries, or pay the winter heating bill, etc….

Or, maybe it’s how you define “poor”. Perhaps he meant “poor” as in one who says to himself “damn, not enough room on the card to buy a new Burberry suit in time for my friend’s wedding” or “maybe I can’t afford to eat at The Roadhouse every night…” - if so, color me impoverished.
posted by FAA on November 30th, 2005 at 3:28 pm
Actually, that comment was directed at Leighton, not Murph. I can certainly see the humor in the mayor clinking a crystal goblet in reference to touting water quality. I drink water from the tap, but I can’t really speak to its “great tastingness.”
posted by OFWinsurgent on November 30th, 2005 at 3:28 pm
Did the mayor actually say “poor people should not own homes in Ann Arbor” or is that paraphrasing to suit his (admittedly funny) observations? I can’t believe it.
posted by OFWinsurgent on November 30th, 2005 at 3:31 pm
“I drink water from the tap, but I can’t really speak to its “great tastingness.”

… it’s easy enough to follow A2’s water from the source to the tap if you want.
posted by Sketchy on November 30th, 2005 at 3:45 pm
In fairness, I think a lot of what Dale (and I) objected to was not the Mayor’s _personal_ opinion/position, but his representation of Ann Arbor’s political mood.

My complaint is not “The Mayor/the city leadership hates poor people”, but, “Why isn’t the city’s leadership doing a better job of swaying public opinion?” They (Mayor/Council) all talk a good line on making Ann Arbor broadly affordable, and have taken some good action in the past to back this up (they could have very easily thrown the old Y to the wolves, rather than shelling out $3.5m to ensure the preservation of the very low income housing there), but they wimp out pretty easily on other issues. Yes, I’m still interested in ADU/granny flats. The Mayor will state that they wouldn’t have created that many housing units, and also that he doesn’t believe in ramming things down a neighborhood’s throats. Well, gee, what about the third way, of explaining to the neighborhoods that it won’t make much of an impact, or trying to ask for their input and revise the proposal? (I think we would call such actions “being a leader”.)

Greden (not on the Council at that time) has said, “ADUs would not be a silver bullet for affordability.” Well, of course not. Nobody has ever claimed it would be. But if Council wants to wait around for a silver bullet, they’re SOL. Not only is a silver bullet solution far less likely than affordability by a thousand cuts, but a silver bullet solution is probably also going to meet a lot more political opposition.
posted by Murph on November 30th, 2005 at 3:46 pm
It’s true, he did not say those words. That’s why they were not in quotes. This is clarified in the comments. This was a VERY fair paraphrase of his words — his meaning was not ambiguous.
posted by Dale on November 30th, 2005 at 3:48 pm
Maybe what the mayor meant was that if you can’t afford a house in Ann Arbor, you shouldn’t buy a house in Ann Arbor. This would be true for any area, not just Ann Arbor. Anyway, are you talking about anywhere in Ann Arbor, or just downtown in Ann Arbor, because houses in southeast Ann Arbor aren’t really expensive. Also, do you mean the municipality of Ann Arbor, or the Ann Arbor school district? I suspect the latter has much more to do with higher relative housing prices in the area compared to the former.
posted by JCP2 on November 30th, 2005 at 4:01 pm
The water that comes out of the tap on my kitchen sink tastes like dirty socks. But the best-tasting dirty socks I’ve ever had.
posted by Dave on November 30th, 2005 at 4:08 pm
Ford has had OEMS all the way upriver to Chelsea. Mercury likes to hang out even when Henry’s friends leave. The treatment options in AA were one of the worst in the state for years.
posted by leighton on November 30th, 2005 at 4:09 pm
I don’t think it’s fair to paraphrase the Mayor as saying, “I believe that it’s not a problem that poorer people can’t buy housing in Ann Arbor; I feel they should go to Ypsi.” (or go to hell, or whereever that’s not here.) I very much interpreted that as his statement of the dominant attitude of Ann Arbor’s vocal RESIDENTS. (Who, granted, have elected him overwhelmingly a few times.) I think he was fairly careful to state things as the will of the politically active, rather than as his opinion.
posted by Murph on November 30th, 2005 at 4:09 pm
I just found the remark attributed to the mayor curious, as increasing the amount of affordable housing was one of the major planks of his platform in 2000.
posted by HNG on November 30th, 2005 at 4:14 pm
I remember when the water in this town tasted like chlorine (this was when I was living in a pretty old place downtown, so it could havbe been the pipes), which is why I was surprised to hear about the “great tasting” award a while back. Anyway, I don’t think it tastes like chemicals anymore.
posted by OFWinsurgent on November 30th, 2005 at 4:39 pm
I agree that the commitment to affordable housing is increasingly hilarious. They push Ashley Mews to set aside four units or whatever, which is fantastic for those four people, but does nothing for anyone else (except as a symbolic response). But God forbid we’d increase density (or ADUs), reduce demand, and therefore make things more affordable for everyone. My God, where would we put the greenway? Criminy.
posted by Mike B on November 30th, 2005 at 4:53 pm
…did someone say Pall Gelman?
posted by Sketchy on November 30th, 2005 at 4:57 pm
Note to self: Don’t bring blogger housemates to class if one wants an A instead of publicity.
posted by Brandon on November 30th, 2005 at 5:40 pm
Oh, and the Mayor definitely didn’t make that comment– he just commented that some Ann Arbor residents make that argument.
posted by Brandon on November 30th, 2005 at 5:43 pm
I just like the idea of there being an actual, physical trophy for the best water. An outline of Michigan! With a wine glass! It’s probably like the divisional Michigan high school football championship trophies, all with the glorious state outline and the cheesy wood and the pomp and circumstance when it is awarded. At least, in my MIND it is.
posted by Boston Fan in Michigan on November 30th, 2005 at 8:50 pm
As a guy who hosted really lovely open-mike nights in Ferndale a few years back, when he found out I was going to U of M:

“Ann Arbor is where the ex-hippies and liberals go once they’ve sold out, to pretend like they’re still living the ideal, even though they couldn’t afford to if they were.”

… or something like that. I’m horrible at paraphrasing.
posted by Jen on November 30th, 2005 at 9:33 pm
I drink my water out of a beer glass. Only snobs drink water out of a wine glass.
posted by Dave on November 30th, 2005 at 9:51 pm
The mayor, to the best of my recollection, did not offer a single position that he distinguished from those of the vocal populace he cited severally. I don’t think it is too much to expect the mayor — the executive of the city and the leader of the Democratic Party — to state that he disagrees with such a sentiment, to explain why it is wholly inequitable, or to demonstrate what he has done to counter it. Murph and Brandon, please correct me if my memory is faulty.
posted by Dale on November 30th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
Dale -

I think you’re right in that the Mayor didn’t do a good job of saying, “…and I think that opinion is wrong because…”

I think it’s important to distinguish between holding a lamentable opinion and failing to satisfactorily provide leadership in the face of such an opinion. Criticize appropriately…

(Yes, and I’m the positive one…)
posted by Murph on December 1st, 2005 at 12:08 am
And my conclusion is that he does not hold an opinion or position contrary to the ones he cited. A charitable interpretation of events would be that the mayor, in citing what “some people say” over and over again, was illustrating how local activists affect community debate — Judy McGovern-style. However, in a graduate class on the topic, I hope the mayor would not solely emphasize how reactive, last-minute, smackdown politics can trump the best efforts of community members and city leaders.
posted by Dale on December 1st, 2005 at 7:58 am
Hey, lighten up! I don’t take the awards all that seriously but they did make great props for our discussion. I especially like the wine class mounted on the plywood state, its a crack up. The contents of the box, the awards the city has won in the last few years were a tongue in cheek way of saying that somebody who doesn’t live here thinks its a great place, not just the “boosters.” I did say “we have a room full of this crap,” in reference to the awards. FYI: I don’t sit on the Water Professionals board, the statewide group that hands out the regional Best Water awards, but the city has won it for a dozen years. (We never win against towns in the UP.)

I’m not running a campaign but teaching a class that goes into the history of the city, including the politics and attitude of the voters over the years. An example from Tuesday: Residents of A2 once voted down an affordable housing millage by a sizeable margin but have voted 2 to 1 to buy parkland every time it has come up. That’s not a rumor but a fact.
FYI: I didn’t say anything even close to: “poor people should not live here.” (At least one student made statements to the effect that there is not an affordable housing problem.) Anyone in the class knows the city devotes a lot of time to the issue of affordable housing. A2 has had some success over the years in the area of affordable housing but almost all of it is for folks on the lower end of the income scale. (Hundreds of units.)
CAN ANYONE NAME A CITY THAT HAS DONE MORE. Please point to just one, medium size, expensive, high demand as a place to live, highly rated city that has done a better job on affordable housing than A2.
Anyone in the class should have a better understanding of how difficult it is to achieve new affordable housing. Especially in a state that does not allow local governments to require it except in PUD’s. I have been working to provide more affordable housing for 5 years and I will continue to work on it. Like everything else, it is even more difficult to do in a state that is starving its cities along with the rest of the beast.
posted by John Hieftje on December 1st, 2005 at 9:29 am
One more time… Heres an offer I hope you take up me up on:
I do not often have time to keep up a conversation on web sites but I do meet with citizens whenever and wherever. Since there are so many interested people on this site, let me throw out on offer. I would be happy to meet any and all for a lengthly discussion of these issues. Friday evening, 6 PM at Leopold’s ? If that does not work perhaps we can arrange another time. Somebody send me an email. jhieftje@ci.ann-arbor.mi.us

My thanks to Mathew for alerting me to this site.
posted by John Hieftje on December 1st, 2005 at 9:44 am
I just want to know how to pronounce your last name.
posted by Dave on December 1st, 2005 at 10:11 am
I will be there. I’ll even buy you the beverage of your choice, Mr. Mayor, because I think your offer of continued discussion is a good one.
posted by Dale on December 1st, 2005 at 10:12 am
Best tap water in the state? Funny that considering it comes from the Detroit Water system. If that was his point that Ann Arbor is not overrated, then he needs to do some work.

If you look at the comments after the blog, he didn’t say that poor people shouldn’t live in Ann Arbor but he said something to that effect in the weaselly political language. It’s funny how some of the more “progressive” cities are the ones with anti-panhandling laws….
posted by Kozzie on December 1st, 2005 at 10:59 am
“An example from Tuesday: Residents of A2 once voted down an affordable housing millage by a sizeable margin but have voted 2 to 1 to buy parkland every time it has come up. That’s not a rumor but a fact.”

Which is why, when told that we don’t have the money to build and maintain a multi-million dollar greenway, I said that greenway advocates will simply put together a multi-million dollar bond/millage proposal, and it will pass with flying colors. Ann Arbor will be a resort town come hell or high water.

6.00pm at Leopold’s on Friday. I’ll be there.
posted by todd leopold on December 1st, 2005 at 11:17 am
(I’ll be there on Friday…)
posted by Murph on December 1st, 2005 at 11:40 am
That sounds like a great idea. Should I mention it on the front page?
posted by ann arbor is overrated on December 1st, 2005 at 11:44 am
Just don’t speak too loudly on Friday, or the OWS neighbors will be upset.
posted by Morbidly Midwestern on December 1st, 2005 at 12:02 pm
“Funny that considering it comes from the Detroit Water system.”

I don’t think so - I think Ann Arbor pulls its water from the Huron River (somewhere near Argo Dam?) and from a set of groundwater wells. Which is why our friend the dioxane plume is such a big problem.
posted by Murph on December 1st, 2005 at 12:05 pm
Murph,
That’s correct - the Ann Arbor water system gets its water from the river and wells. The Ypsilanti Community Utilities Authority resells water from the Detroit system.
posted by tom on December 1st, 2005 at 12:46 pm
Unfortunately, I have other plans for tomorrow at 6pm, so I probably won’t be able to come.

I’m stunned to hear that Ann Arbor won any positive awards for its water. When we moved here in 1990, the water took some getting used to.

In mid-Michigan where I grew up, all water comes from the Saginaw Aquifer underground, is very clean, but has to be “softened” at great cost to remove the high mineral content. Surface water from rivers and lakes, by contrast, doesn’t need to be softened, but may be dirty with microorganisms and pollutants.

Ann Arbor gets its water from both sources (something like 25% ground water, 75% surface water), because combining the two dilutes both kinds of problems. That means less processing is needed, and less cost.

In recent years, the city has invested hugely in water treatment, so the water is probably a lot better than it was. Back in the 80s, you could taste the agricultural fertilizers in the water in the springtime from the farms upstream.
posted by Larry Kestenbaum on December 1st, 2005 at 1:54 pm
A top headline would be nice AAIO.

The mayor has confirmed that he will be there at 6.00pm Friday.

It should be fun.

See you all there.
posted by todd leopold on December 1st, 2005 at 2:21 pm
I’m selling pitchforks and torches at a surprising discount.
posted by js on December 1st, 2005 at 2:45 pm
good one js!

I’ll be there too.
posted by OFWinsurgent on December 1st, 2005 at 2:52 pm
Hooray for discussion! Sadly, I will not be able to make it, but I will follow the discussion here and at AO.
posted by Matthew Hampel on December 1st, 2005 at 3:05 pm
John, I really appreciate your clarifying comments.

As to water - I *never* drink the stuff. Fish fornicate in it, you know…
posted by DaveCahill on December 1st, 2005 at 6:17 pm
Friday, 6:00. Sounds good.
posted by Anonymous on December 1st, 2005 at 8:35 pm
As a member of the class in question, I would like to encourage everybody to keep in mind Dale’s disclaimer at the end of his post– that he describes himself as an “excitable, righteous advocate of students and renters,” which is great (I’m a student and renter myself), but which also means that his description of the class is rather biased.
I am glad to see that the mayor has already posted in his own defense. As someone with no personal stake at hand, however, I thought that I would put in my two cents’ worth.
The mayor did describe the Froemmer’s guide as a complete, objective, and scientific study of cities– but his tone of voice was obviously sarcastic.
As for the affordable housing issue, I can’t recall if he said anything that was distinctly pro-affordable housing on that specific day, but remember that the majority of us students in the class have been listening to him for the entire semester, and he has said things in support of affordable housing before. Perhaps he didn’t feel the need to clarify his opinions from the opinions of the residents because all of us already have heard his opinions, many times. One example that I can think of right now is his support of the city’s effort to increase the in-lieu fees from $60,000 to $90,000 per unit. Of course, there is a whole debate on whether in-lieu fees are a good thing to begin with, but think: he could be opposed to raising the fees, or even want to reduce them (wouldn’t that be nice for the developers).
Finally, I think that the conclusion of the class was closer to “Ann Arbor definitely has some problems, but also deserves some of the positive ratings it receives.” So yes, overrated, but not that bad a place either.
posted by Claire on December 1st, 2005 at 9:08 pm
If I remember correctly, the questions about affordable housing directly asked him to respond to policy considerations and allocation of finances, finishing up by asking about his priorities — an opportunity not only to restate his opinion, but to answer a pointed question that probably had not yet been asked during the semester. I am very much looking forward to hearing his response.
posted by Dale on December 1st, 2005 at 9:59 pm
I haven’t posted anything about the mayor’s meeting to the front page because it seems like it should be more informal. But I’ll be there.
posted by ann arbor is overrated on December 2nd, 2005 at 11:41 am
Will it be obvious where you guys are? I have a dim recolletion of what Murph and AAIO look like, and I don’t think I know anyone else.
posted by Dave on December 2nd, 2005 at 12:03 pm
Well, you’ve seen pictures of Mayor Hieftje, right?
posted by ann arbor is overrated on December 2nd, 2005 at 12:08 pm
I have now. Still have no idea how to say his name though. Maybe I’ll call him “Mayor John.”
posted by Dave on December 2nd, 2005 at 12:10 pm
Don’t sweat it. He says he didn’t know how to pronounce his own surname until he was 12 years old.
posted by Larry Kestenbaum on December 2nd, 2005 at 12:16 pm
Well Dave, I’ll wear a red carnation.

If that doesn’t work, just look for a fairly large fellow wearing overalls and a red beard.
posted by todd leopold on December 2nd, 2005 at 12:49 pm
It’s “heef - tya”, I think.
posted by DaveCahill on December 2nd, 2005 at 12:57 pm
I’ll be wearing a gorilla suit.
posted by OFWinsurgent on December 2nd, 2005 at 2:10 pm
A Mountain gorilla, Bwindi Forest gorilla, Eastern or Western lowland gorilla, or Cross River gorilla?

I ask because there might be multiple g-suited folks there. It’s Friday night, after all.
posted by Dave on December 2nd, 2005 at 2:33 pm
Turns out I can make it after all. See y’all there.
posted by Larry Kestenbaum on December 2nd, 2005 at 4:09 pm
The name Hieftje looks Dutch to me, in which case I think it would be “hift - yeh”. Anyone care to make friendly wagers before the Mayor pronounces it?
posted by FAA on December 2nd, 2005 at 4:43 pm
This is turning into quite the soiree…

I’m identifiable - use the Mary Morgan heuristic and look for a guy who looks like he’s probably a treehugger.
posted by Murph. on December 2nd, 2005 at 5:05 pm
Yeah, I’ll be there, too {Even though I have a boatload of other academic/extracurricular projects I need to work on}
posted by Brandon on December 2nd, 2005 at 5:07 pm
Soo - what happened at this evening’s gathering? Inquiring minds want to know.
posted by DaveCahill on December 2nd, 2005 at 8:38 pm
It was great, but the acoustics suck at Leopolds, so no one could hear anything
posted by OFWinsurgent on December 2nd, 2005 at 8:40 pm
Hey OFWi, I didn’t get to introduce myself, but I know for a fact you weren’t in a gorilla suit. And Todd wasn’t sporting a carnation either.
posted by Dave on December 3rd, 2005 at 10:06 am
Definitely a great gesture on the mayor’s part (as well as Easthope and Greden). One point I thought was made well a couple times is that city leaders need to get out ahead of the curve on some of the major issues to lead discussion and build consensus for the directions the city NEEDS to go. A tall order, to be sure, but a necessary one.
posted by Dale on December 3rd, 2005 at 11:41 am
I remember decades ago when a tubful of water was actually blue-green in color. Since the H20 plant changed to zapping their output in an ozone chamber it is more palatable. That might be why Arbor Springs uses so many millions of gallons of it. Washing the old bottles out maybe?

Anyway, City Hall is such a joke, in the Will Rogers sense of the word. One employee I conversed with a couple weeks ago is on the 18th supervisor in 15 years. Why does every new member of management spend public funds for a consultant to confirm their opinion that the workers need to be “fixed” or culled out?
posted by Skyhawk on December 7th, 2005 at 12:59 am
the fact that all of you are arguing about this is what makes ann arbor great. in the town i currently live in, no one cares enough about it to defend or argue against it. good work, guys. also, if you don’t like the water, move to the DC area and try to drink out of the tap. it’s DISGUSTING.
posted by alison on December 12th, 2007 at 6:26 pm

Is Ann Arbor Overrated?

68 Responses to “Is Ann Arbor Overrated?”

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