ann arbor is overrated. » Blog Archive » Commapitalists or Capunists?

Commapitalists or Capunists?

The new Observer (no, they don’t sell the Observer here in Chicago; we have ways of getting it, though) profiles a new store called Planet. Sorry — “infoshop,” as the store owners like to call their establishment, which offers “protest literature…fair-trade coffee, rebellious music and a spray paint and marker section for graffiti artists.”

“Like Europe’s infoshops, the Planet is part political center, part retail store, and part cultural statement,” runs the caption on a photo of one of the cofounders, draped in an American flag with the stars replaced by corporate logos. “I wrote a satire and I got in big trouble for it,” one customer tells the Observer. “It was about how we should introduce eighth-grade material to second-graders, and the teacher — the English teacher — didn’t even get it.” Yeah, the same thing happened to us when we suggested that we should introduce basic planning material to greenway supporters.

Also worth checking out: an story entitled “Democans or Republicrats?” about the increasing nonpartisanship of A2 politics that refers to Eugene Kang as “Eugene Wang” throughout.

60 Responses to “Commapitalists or Capunists?”

Speaking of this, anyone have an extra copy of the July Observer I can get ahold of.

They seem to have stopped delivering to our house, for some reason.
posted by Brandon on July 29th, 2005 at 8:15 pm
Maybe they figured out that you aren’t in the double-wide stroller demographic?
posted by Anna on July 29th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
“I wrote a satire and I got in big trouble for it.”
In trouble with who? The “infoshop”?
posted by Alan Gutierrez on July 30th, 2005 at 12:15 am
Anna - Are Ann Arbor babies that fat?
posted by Alan Gutierrez on July 30th, 2005 at 12:16 am
Brandon–I’ll see if I can find mine (not sure if I threw it away or not). If so, I’ll pop by and drop it off.

Yeah, the “Wang” thing had me in a fair amount of stitches. I’ve been very leery of visiting The Planet, even though they’ve shown a couple of movies I was somewhat interested in.
posted by Lazaro on July 30th, 2005 at 9:18 am
I’ve been in the Planet. For all their talk of Non-Corporate Music, they still had CD’s from Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin. I didn’t see any Mojo Nixon though. So much for alternative…:)
posted by Kozzie on July 30th, 2005 at 11:49 am
Brandon: They leave a stack for us up at the center. I can get you one if you want.
posted by js on July 30th, 2005 at 1:45 pm
This is amusing. You’ve made a whole site to put down Ann Arbor because you’re home city sucks? You’ve realized people don’t even bother writing about your cities.
posted by Chaylie on July 30th, 2005 at 1:50 pm
Chaylie - One of these days, when you discover the joy of reading, I’m sure you’ll discover that there are many books written about Chicago. They have picture books about Chicago as well, if that makes it easier.
posted by Alan Gutierrez on July 30th, 2005 at 3:30 pm
I don’t know where else to put these ….

* Will there be an aaio event in Chicago?

* Since the change in technology, when I post, I am left with a blank page and I have to reload.

* An Ann Arbor waitress (CHS grad, working on Masters at EMU) sends me this:

“Hey Derby Lovers!
We’re having a hell-raisin’ bar burner to leave our smokin’ skate tracks on Detroit on July 30th at the 2500 Club.

Featured guests are Casket Gasket, The Breakers and Death in Custody with our sisters in alternative sports on the patio: Burly Girly Mud Wrestling! Yup, that’s right — bring your towels cuz we’re takin’ it to a whole new level. You can wrestle ‘em too! (men must be in drag)

All proceeds go to support your hard-training Detroit Derby Girls army in their effort to conquer the derby. First Detroit . . . then the world.

July 30th
The 2500 Club
Doors at 9 PM.
Cover is $5.
21+ only
See you there!

http://detroitrollerderby.com”
posted by A Different Jon on July 30th, 2005 at 5:04 pm
I was talking to an anarchist a couple weeks ago who was really pissed off at the guy who owns the planet — it’s a for-profit shop, but apparently he uses volenteer labor (plus, it’s all subsidised by his parents). (On the other hand, I was talking to aforemntioned owner, too, and he seemed alright.)
posted by Ben on July 31st, 2005 at 12:04 am
Those anarchists are hard to please.
posted by Larry Kestenbaum on July 31st, 2005 at 5:04 am
Gasp, a left wing shop for profit….Isn’t that like wrong?
posted by Kozzie on July 31st, 2005 at 12:18 pm
Well, better to do something good but require parental subsidy to do it (how many of us would have made it through school otherwise?) than to not do something good. And, if you’re on the Planet’s mailing list, you’ll know that’s it’s not particularly “for profit”. I think he’s sticking to the tried-and-true model of constantly flailing to not go out of business. (And has, on the mailing list, mentioned the possibility of turning the store into a worker’s cooperative or collective at some point in the future.)

Anyways, this little anarchist doesn’t think The Planet’s a bad place, though, if Adam’s serious about running for City Council (as he announced he was going to do at some point in the past), he’s going to need to develop a stronger platform than “abolish corporate personhood.”
posted by Murph on July 31st, 2005 at 2:39 pm
The Planet: Not exactly my scene, but they seem to believe in what they are doing and it’s a real DIY-sorta venture, so I won’t be too much of a hater.

JS or Lazaro: yes, I’d like a July Observer if you’ve got one.

Roller Derby: In the past 2 weeks I’m suddenly hearing about all of these roller derby teams (Grand Rapids has one too). What’s the story on this? Have these been around constantly or are they just springing up recently?
posted by Brandon on August 1st, 2005 at 9:34 am
Debbie Gibson is preeeegnant
with my two-headed looooove child!
posted by Mojo Nixon on August 1st, 2005 at 10:01 am
How’s Fish Karma these days…I miss him.
posted by OFWinsurgent on August 1st, 2005 at 10:21 am
I dunno, the last ad I saw for an event at this Planet place was all about exposing “the Illuminati.” Next up, alien abductions?
posted by Dave on August 1st, 2005 at 11:23 am
He’s cool. He’s actually teaching Poli Sci back at the University of Arizona. And he just bought a new VW–a Jetta i think. Stick shift.
posted by Mojo Nixon on August 1st, 2005 at 12:15 pm
Brandon –

Check out the Detroit Roller Derby website. They should have links to other websites.

From what I know, it’s a recent DIY resurgence of roller derby. I caught an exhibition match in Chicago. It was a pretty big production.
posted by A Different Jon on August 2nd, 2005 at 4:09 am
Get with it, folks. The New York Times was on this a year ago.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20F14FD34590C728CDDA10894DC404482&incamp=archive:search
posted by Parking Structure Dude! on August 2nd, 2005 at 9:50 am
Kozzie: Mojo Nixon seems like a pretty weird reference point as the litmus test for what makes an “alternative” store… but you know, whatever you’re into - I hope that you at least told the guy that if he didn’t know mojo nixon than his store could use some fixin’.
posted by Real Big on August 3rd, 2005 at 5:56 am
Or better yet, get with it, support your local derby.
posted by A Different Jon on August 3rd, 2005 at 6:20 am
OT, but what exactly is the purpose of public universities such as U of M in this day and age? I dearly love my own Big 10 Alma Mater, but it and other schools seem to function mostly as big and expensive (to the taxpayer) playgrounds.
posted by Ross on August 3rd, 2005 at 9:21 am
It’s pretty much just all about football, Ross. Football and beer. You don’t like it, we’ll send you a refund, but I think you like it.
posted by Parking Structure Dude! on August 3rd, 2005 at 9:25 am
Ross: You’re right, that is definitely off topic… but by some primitive, reptilian faculty of my mind, I am unable to stop trying to relate it to the topic at hand. tell me - why here? why now? It’ll drive me to madness, otherwise.
posted by Real Big on August 3rd, 2005 at 9:26 am
It’s all the gas fumes in Indi, isn’t it, Ross? They’ve made you loco.
posted by Parking Structure Dude! on August 3rd, 2005 at 9:30 am
Program on the emergence of civilization.

“14 species of large animals capable of domesitcation in the history of mankind.
None from the sub-Saharan African continent.
13 from Europe, Asia and northern Africa.”
Favor.
And disfavor.

They point out Africansâ€™ attempts to domesticate the elephant and zebra, the latter being an animal they illustrate that had utmost importance for it’s applicability in transformation from a hunting/gathering to agrarian-based civilization.

The roots of racism are not of this earth.

Austrailia, aboriginals:::No domesticable animals, so this nulified diversity of life claims on sub-continental Africa, zebras being a fine example.

The North American continent had none. Now 99% of that population is gone.

god is a computer
And we’re all on auto-pilot.

Organizational Heirarchy
Heirarchical order, from top to bottom:

1. MUCK - perhaps have experienced multiple universal contractions (have seen multiple big bangs), creator of the artificial intelligence humans ignorantly refer to as “god”
2. Perhaps some mid-level alien management â€“
3. Mafia (evil) aliens - runs day-to-day operations here and perhaps elsewhere (”On planets where they approved evil.”)

Then we come to terrestrial management:

4. Chinese/egyptians - this may be separated into the eastern and western worlds
5. Romans - they answer to the egyptians
6. Mafia - the real-world interface that constantly turns over generationally so as to reinforce the widely-held notion of mortality
7. Jews, corporation, women, politician - Evidence exisits to suggest mafia management over all these groups.

Survival of the favored.

Journal: 10 composition books + 39 megs of text files

Movies foreshadowing catastrophy
1986 James Bond View to a Kill â€“ 1989 San Fransisco Loma Prieta earthquake.
posted by The roots of racism on August 21st, 2005 at 2:32 pm
for all of the potential flaws of The Planet infoshop, i admire them as a place that is hosting a Book Signing for Israel/Palestine scholar Norman G. Finkelstein (October 20th):

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/content.php?pg=9

throughout this year, the Israel-numerb-1-whocaresabout-Palestinians crowd has been trying to silence Finkelstein buy all legal means available. The Harvard Bookstore even rescinded thei invitation for Finkelstein’s speaking event and book reception.

i’m not from Ann Arbor or from Michigan and i haven’t been there yet so i don’t know why it would suck. i accidentally found this page by looking for The Planet’s address.
posted by tamudjin on October 14th, 2005 at 11:27 am
What? Teaching Poly Science at the University of Arizona? What outrageous persiflage!
I’m actually in San Antonio, embroiled in a complete financial, mental, and ethical collapse. (But I do have a new album coming out next year on Alternative Tentacles that details my personal suffering.)

Fish K
posted by Fish Karma on October 25th, 2005 at 6:07 pm
I loved the record with Die Like a Dog and Let’s be Methodists Tonight, but an old boyfriend of mine stole it. Now it’s out of print…it was a gem!
posted by OFWinsurgent on October 25th, 2005 at 7:04 pm
Sorry I’ve been so slow to respond and address the issues and speculation put forth on this thread. I’m Adam de Angeli, the proprietor of the shop (”store,” “infoshop,” whatever you wish to call it) and an explanation is well-deserved.

As to the thread’s name, “Commapitalist or Capunists?” I’m honored (despite the snide intent) that there is such a confusion about our agenda. It breaks through the black-and-white delineation of the two beliefs, a false binary imposed on the public by the forces of manipulation.

I don’t have a problem with capitalism itself; I have a problem with the totally out-of-control situation we find ourselves in where heartless, soulless corporations exploit billions of people around the world to satisfy the greed of their owners and bribe powerful governments to turn a blind eye to it.

I have a problem with the major media that willingly pushes these lies on the public.

At its heart the left/right debate is a charade. The fundamental distinction–state power vs. private power–is absurd because the system operates with the two working hand in hand.

The problem is rooted in corruption and crime. Criminals in government are using crises and the ensuing fear to increase and consolidate their power. It’s as simple as that.

So what if we’re a store that wants to make money. If we make anything more than what we need for rent, bills, and putting food on our tables, it’s going toward activist efforts. And there is no reason why liberals, disillusioned conservatives, Greens, communists, socialists, anarchists, libertarians, and everyone else should not be combining their efforts to bring these criminals to justice. If that is what they are really after.

But I digress. Back to the store.

As to the customer’s comment, that was made by a random person in the shop when I was being interviewed, a middle-schooler who was only sympathizing with us for being persecuted for having subversive ideas. Whatever Mr. Crankypants was insinuating by including the statement (out of context) has nothing to do with the meaning of the store.

***

And as to the comments that follow–

“Kozzie” talks smack about our music section for carrying Zeppelin and Floyd and not carrying Mojo Nixon. Excuse me Kozzie, if we don’t have one particular band you’re looking for, out of the thousands of non-mainstream artists. We have Pink Floyd and Zeppelin only because our type of customers like them. I personally have no interest in any music from the previous generation, and artists like those are the smallest segment of our music section. Besides our dedicated Local and Rebel music sections, almost everything else is radio-unfriendly. One.Be.Lo, Living Legnds, Anti-Flag, Kid 606, the Flashbulb, Mr. Bungle, Anti-Pop Consortium, J-Live, Paris, Snot, Sage Francis, Squarepusher, Venetian Snares–you’ll find them at the store. What you’ll never find is Snoop Dogg, Blink 182, Madonna, 50 Cent, Metallica, Beyonce, or other darlings of the entertainment industry. Sorry if we don’t have Mojo Nixon–haven’t heard of them. There are thousands of underground artists out there and we can’t know them all. Maybe if Kozzie stopped in and asked us to check out Mojo Nixon, we’d have them on our shelves. But he didn’t, so too bad.

Then there’s this Ben character, who claims that an anarchist he talked to said that we’re a for-profit shop but employ volunteer labor. Either Ben’s source is a liar or Ben himself is a liar, because everyone who works here makes $8 an hour at a minimum. Our paid employees have chosen to volunteer some hours for us, but they are paid. Don’t spread rumors and lies, Ben, you anonymous shyt-stirrer.

Murph makes some nice comments and I appreciate that. Although the plan to run for City Council never materialized–seemed like too much effort at that stage. Though abolishing corporate personhood was hardly our proposed platform; that was only offered as an explanation for the absurdity of a corporation running for office.

As to Dave’s little jibe about us showing “The Illuminati,” I happen to think the movie was poor, but the topic was relevant, since it does appear that the global elite our working as a group. After all, everything that happens in the world benefits them. Sorry if you’re too closed-minded to investigate legitimate claims of conspiracy.

***

I hope these comments have been helpful, but I should point out something more important than anything else.

The top mission of The Planet is to get people to stop obeying their fears and embrace idealism, to find value in being a part of a movement that challenges mainstream thought and the value of sticking your neck out and saying something. To help people (especially jaded young people like us) understand that creation is more worthwhile than destruction.

Nothing could be more diametrically opposed to our philosophy than a website named AnnArborIsOverrated.com. Totally cynical, the author/webmaster is apparently trying to extract some sort of revenge on Ann Arbor for being a disappointment to his expectations. At The Planet we have a deep respect for the history of Ann Arbor, and a sincere opposition to its gradual subversion, and it’s our mission to remind people what Ann Arbor once was and try to bring that back. The revolutionary musicians of the MC5, the art and music created at the old Technology Center, the Bad Idea, the Raw and War houses, the brief experience with Instant Runoff Voting in 1975, to name just a few among very many.

Ann Arbor has a rich history that we want to resurrect, while annarborisoverrated.com would prefer to dance on its grave. Ann Arbor didn’t get great ratings from being spoiled by a college economy. It won it from the hard work of its residents, a collective effort spanning decades that embraced citizen participation.

I beg of everyone: do not surrender to this cynicism. Bleat all you want about my family helping me get this operation off the ground; plenty of college students could have pulled off the same thing, if they only had the nerve. People need to recognize their potential to launch their own actions and activities and bring the changes they envision to life.

It’s a better path than whining and complaining about the state of the world, the country, the city, to be active in reforming/revolutionizing it. I hope people support our ideas about doing so, but we are a state of mind, not simply a store, and we’re only using our storefront to encourage people even more, to give legitimacy to our ideas of resistance.

Bitch about our politics if you will, but don’t dare malign our revolutionary spirit, unless you want to expose yourself as a cynical doomsayer, a supporter of the status quo that is eroding peace and freedom in America and all over the world.

Sorry for the heavy-handed know-it-all rhetoric, but that’s my position and I’m sticking to it regardless of the consequences, and ultimately defeating the defeatism is the only way that the forces of good can prevail.

For more info, visit www.a2planet.com . Our forum is open to the public at www.a2planet.com/forum/ and my Media Watch blog is www.a2planet.com/blog/

Adam de Angeli
posted by Adam de Angeli on December 28th, 2005 at 4:59 am
As I’m at work during break and bored, I actually read most of Mr. De Agneli’s post. Up until the whole “Ann Arbor Is Overrated Is Bad For The City” section.

Since he managed to miss this post for… I don’t know how long, but I don’t even remember when this was posted… I assume he’s not a regular reader.

The regular posters whose real-life identities I know on this site do more for the city in various ways and means than most. This site also informs me more about Ann Arbor politics than any other source, and I do thank you for it, AAiO. I wouldn’t keep up on this stuff as easily otherwise. The only other city publication I can think of that I really enjoy reading is the Ann Arbor Paper, and it doesn’t really count.

As for your shop, I appreciate the philosophy. Hell, I used to volunteer at a similar place. But the most striking thing seems to be exclusivity. Whether it’s intentional or not, you seem to serve a very small segment of this city’s population, and even though I’m friends with some people involved in it, I don’t have a desire to go to the store. Whether you’re aware of it or not, you’re alienating an awful lot of people, especially with the “holier than thou” attitude prevailing.

As for cynicism, well, I’m not apologizing for that. You can love your country but hate your government, and dare I say the same about Ann Arbor. Despite posting on this site, there are aspects of living here that I truly enjoy. Hell, at the very least, going home to suburbia makes me well aware of the benefits of living in Ann Arbor. But, with all due respect, I’m keeping my damned cynicism and sarcasm. I have more than enough justification for it through my 4.5 years living experience here as a student. Especially as a student.
posted by Jen on December 28th, 2005 at 10:04 am
We asked for Mojo Nixon, they said he don’t work here, we said “if you dont got Mojo Nixon than your store could use some fixin…”

-Punk Rock Girl
posted by The Dead Milkmen on December 28th, 2005 at 2:12 pm
i surfed over to the a2planet web page and somehow found myself deep into some nutty rhetoric having to do with the pledge of allegiance, the nazi salute, and all other manner of conspiratoria.

anybody got any eyewash? i feel dirty now.
posted by peter honeyman on December 28th, 2005 at 5:54 pm
I appreciate the feedback I’ve received from my comment. Jen has given a thoughtful though disagreeable criticism I will address in this comment. “The Dead Milkmen” quote has a good point. But I’ve checked with every music distributor we go through and none of them carry Mojo Nixon. So if anyone around can connect us with a source, we’ll be more than happy to stock them. As to Peter Honeyman’s post, he is another crude liar–nothing on our website mentions the Pledge of Allegiance or the Nazi Salute.

And what passes for “conspiratoria” on our site are legitimate concerns–like, “Why were both major Presidential candidates last year members of the satanic Skull and Bones cult?” Seems like a fair question to me. I have no patience for people who dismiss hard factual evidence of deep corruption as “conspiracy theories” (especially since the official explanation of the events of September 11th is the most retarded conspiracy theory ever concocted–the whole American defense apparatus being totally blindsided and the Towers falling straight down at the speed of gravity–how stupid are you?!?!)

But anyway enough dealing with nonsense. Since Jen raised some legit points, my response:

>As Iâ€™m at work during break and bored, I actually read most of Mr. De Agneliâ€™s post. Up until the whole â€œAnn Arbor Is Overrated Is Bad For The Cityâ€ section.

–>Usually best to read the whole thing. Helps you stay informed.

>Since he managed to miss this post forâ€¦ I donâ€™t know how long, but I donâ€™t even remember when this was postedâ€¦ I assume heâ€™s not a regular reader.

–>Funny what comes up when you Google your own name. Though actually some people tipped me off about the article a while back, rebutting just wasn’t at the top of my priority list, though I found some time over the holidays.

>The regular posters whose real-life identities I know on this site do more for the city in various ways and means than most. This site also informs me more about Ann Arbor politics than any other source, and I do thank you for it, AAiO. I wouldnâ€™t keep up on this stuff as easily otherwise. The only other city publication I can think of that I really enjoy reading is the Ann Arbor Paper, and it doesnâ€™t really count.

–>arborupdate.com is better; it doesn’t take an openly hateful stance toward the city whose politics is covers, and it is run by several people instead of just one. As for the Paper it’s alright but the Critical Moment is way better.

>As for your shop, I appreciate the philosophy. Hell, I used to volunteer at a similar place. But the most striking thing seems to be exclusivity. Whether itâ€™s intentional or not, you seem to serve a very small segment of this cityâ€™s population, and even though Iâ€™m friends with some people involved in it, I donâ€™t have a desire to go to the store. Whether youâ€™re aware of it or not, youâ€™re alienating an awful lot of people, especially with the â€œholier than thouâ€ attitude prevailing.

–>The Planet is not at all exclusive, and I’d appreciate a more elaborate answer as to how we’re alienating people. The political/social/racial/environmental/etc climate in America is extremely turbulent and anyone who takes a strong opinion on things is going to be seen as “alienating” but much of the store is determined by what the public puts into it. Our entire local music/local art/local literature departments are open to anyone who wishes to contribute, and we pride ourselves on offering a diverse group of fringe literature, include far-left, far-right (not brainwashed Repugnican far-right, but Constitutionalist/libertarian far-right), radical middle, anarchist, any other type of passionate material, that the visitors may hear all sides and judge for themselves.

We’re not trying to come off as “holier than thou” so much as “hey check this sh*t out” but if that’s the vibe you get, see it as a challenge to prove us inferior. We’re just people with ideas and I have yet to see any other store putting forth the sincere community-building effort that we have.

And on that note, please don’t take this response as being condescending; I’m just offering a rebuttal.

>As for cynicism, well, Iâ€™m not apologizing for that. You can love your country but hate your government, and dare I say the same about Ann Arbor. Despite posting on this site, there are aspects of living here that I truly enjoy. Hell, at the very least, going home to suburbia makes me well aware of the benefits of living in Ann Arbor. But, with all due respect, Iâ€™m keeping my damned cynicism and sarcasm. I have more than enough justification for it through my 4.5 years living experience here as a student. Especially as a student.

–>That’s understandable, but the problem is that cynicism is defeatism. If any sort of social movement is to prevail, it has to recognize that it has the ability to prevail. I regard the sad state of affairs in Ann Arbor as a challenge to make it better. This site seems to have the idea that complaining about the problems of Ann Arbor justifies it for not having done anything about it, but all it really does is give its participants a venue for wallowing in self-pity. Ann Arbor was (and still is, to a lesser extent) a beautiful city that needs people to step out and take matters into their own hands, and that’s all The Planet has ever tried to accomplish. People visit the store like it’s just a store but it’s really an invitation for them to match our commitment to it. If you disagree with the particulars of the store’s politics and my personal politics, you are free to write a business plan, canvass student interest for it, negotiate a loan, set up a website, lease a campus commercial property, and build your own activist space. Don’t let The Planet stop you.

Then you can pontificate about how great your accomplishments are on a cynical website that belittles the city you belong to.

I’m sorry this reply must sound so mean-spirited, but it is a mean-spirited environment (this blog) that raised this issue in the first place. We’re proud of what we stand for and I hope you can respect that. We’re living in an age where trivial disputes over politics stand in the way of evicting a criminal government, a movement that requires universal participation and the patience to set aside ideological differences. The Planet seemed like the best way we could put ourselves into action, and we’ve done everything we can to include everyone in this (well, we burned a bridge with the campus Democrats from the beginning… but we all make mistakes).

So please, reconsider your loathing for our arrogant know-it-all stance on the state of the living/shopping environment and let’s exchange ideas.

Adam
www.a2planet.com

“Conspiracy theory” in the sense that evolution is a “biological theory”:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wrh_9-11_index.html
posted by Adam de Angeli on December 29th, 2005 at 3:43 am
I’m sorry my reply to this thread (prior to Mr. de Angeli’s last posting) was lost when my connection went down.

It was something along the lines of: “Appearances are deceiving. The people who write here are a lot less cynical than the national average. Cynicism (in more than small doses) is disempowering.”

I’d been planning for some time to write a blog essay about the “alternate” views of what happened on 9/11. I should get to work on it.
posted by Larry Kestenbaum on December 29th, 2005 at 10:07 am
“As to Peter Honeymanâ€™s post, he is another crude liarâ€“nothing on our website mentions the Pledge of Allegiance or the Nazi Salute.”

fuck you, adam. i didn’t say i found it on your web site, i said i found after a little surfing from your web site. as in: click on “media watch” (upper right corner of your web site), scroll down a few screens, click on “U.S. press hides its neo-Nazis journalism from foreign press.”

you stupid asshole.
posted by peter honeyman on December 29th, 2005 at 10:54 am
Oh right, that. Let’s look at that, shall we?

As with all of the entries on the blog, the title is the same as the title of the article it criticizes. So:

[title] U.S. press hides its neo-Nazis journalism from foreign press

Followed by a short excerpt of the gist of it:

[excerpt]The U.S. media are suppressing new discoveries about the history of Nazism in the U.S. It is a attempt to keep the foreign press in the dark.

Posted 12:00 AM | Permalink
Category: Michigan IMC

[now, what I say, which is itself a criticism of someone else’s blog entry:]

There is a deception here. First in the title, which talks of “neo-nazis journalism,” which contradicts the rest of the article, which talks with information about the Nazis in America’s past.

But where it really gets interesting is the first comment, an extremely long rant about the author being censored by Wikipedia spammers, which is obviously written by the author of the original article.

To the author, whether it is “Rex Curry” himself or anyone else:

You rant about Wikipedia as though you have some expectation of managerial oversight. Wikipedia is an “open source” (so to speak) encyclopedia with no editorial control whatsoever. You have no right to expect the Wikipedia to honor your posts, any more than its readers have a right to expect factual accuracy from an unmoderated knowledge base involving a controversial issue like yours.

Wikipedia is no different from any other information source; the more popular it gets, the more people will spread misinformation. Whether it is you or your detractors spreading the misinformation isn’t relevant, because the source is not credible.

If you want your article to be published, perhaps you should submit it to reputable sites that verify facts. These sites may also you require that you tone down your bias a bit.

May I suggest you not make a point of juxtaposing nationalism and socialism. History has proven that nationalism is the devil, whether it is Socialist like Germany or the USSR or right-wing like it was in fascist Italy and is today in the USA. It isn’t relavant whether power is owned by the state or by the corporations; what matters is that power is owned.

Michigan IMC readers, be aware that you have spooks among you. You can spot them by their obsession with Nazism.

[end of article]

So, I was totally correct. Nothing in my posting mentions either the Pledge of Allegiance or the Nazi salute.

The only mention of that was on the Michigan IMC’s website. It wasn’t on my site, not even in the excerpt.

You did misquote me, and you misquote me again, and called me a “stupid asshole.”

Note that the final comment I made on that posting reads, ”
Michigan IMC readers, be aware that you have spooks among you. You can spot them by their obsession with Nazism.”

This extends to this weblog, as well.

Honeyman’s original comment was, “i surfed over to the a2planet web page and somehow found myself deep into some nutty rhetoric having to do with the pledge of allegiance, the nazi salute, and all other manner of conspiratoria.”

Honeyman has misquoted me completely, since all I was doing was drawing attention to somebody else’s conspiratoria.

Honeyman is an adjunct professor. He has no possibility of pleading “innocent mistake” on misquoting me. And that shows intent to deceive.

you stupid disinformationist.
posted by Adam on December 29th, 2005 at 7:45 pm
Aight, I totally did forget ArborUpdate. I have it linked on my Firefox toolbar, and I forgot it. I blame the Bailey’s I was drinking all during the holiday.

Everything else, I’ll respond to at some other point, probably.
posted by Jen on December 29th, 2005 at 8:20 pm
adam, do you like to argue?
posted by peter honeyman on December 29th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
I take attacks on my credibility seriously, and I will not stand by and permit someone to misrepresent me or The Planet.

I do not like to argue; arguments are neither productive nor enjoyable. I have more productive things for me to do, and I don’t do this for the sake of enjoyment. There are plenty of selfish things I could do with my time than support an activist movement, but America and Ann Arbor being in the situation that they are, my conscience is obliged.

The question is, do you like to spread bad information and speculation about one’s ulterior motives, and if not, then what is your motive?
posted by Adam de Angeli on December 29th, 2005 at 10:47 pm
oops, stupid of me to imagine that a long-winded nutcase might have a sense of humor.

adam, first you called me a liar, then you conceded (”Oh right, that.”) that my post was accurate, but claimed i misquoted you.

here’s a hint about misquoting, adam: without quoting there can be no misquoting. it’s easy to recognize quoting: look for quotation marks, you know, those little tick marks that look like a pair of nazi salutes.

then you went on a long-winded rant that has nothing to do with my post (the accuracy of which you already conceded), quoting your blog at length. in this way you managed to convince yourself that you were misquoted.

you then returned to the paranoid themes of misquoting, intent to deceive, disinformation, ulterior motives, yadda yadda yadda, notwithstanding your concession that my post was accurate.

and harmless, adam. that’s the point. nothing i said in my post did you any harm, nor was it intended to do you any harm. if you felt harmed by it, i regret that … ok, and i apologize.

but really — and this comes straight from the heart, adam — i think you are a big fucking asshole. hope that’s ok!
posted by peter honeyman on December 29th, 2005 at 11:29 pm
Before I get into this, let me make one thing abundantly clear.

Peter Honeyman has elicited a very sharp, mean-spirited response from me on this issue.

Please to NOT interpret this response as being indicative of a contrarian, arrogant, mean-spirited way of addressing constructive criticism.

We at The Planet welcome constructive criticism and do our best to make things right.

This response is sharp and mean-spirited because the person who has put me up to it is a fraud and a liar. Let that not sway your opinion on our way of dealing with people. This is a very special case. Read on…

With every retort, Honeyman, you dig your own grave deeper.

Surely you are aware that anybody reading this thread will trace the back-and-forth from beginning to end–trying to make sense of it, trying to figure out who is being sincere and who is being deceptive.

“Oh right, that” in no way concedes that your post was accurate, only that I figured out what the heck you could be referring to. The quote prefaced a comment in which I solidly and completely established that your retort was not only inaccurate, but could not have been anything other than a deliberate attempt to link some nutty third party (in this case, the person who actually posted a note concerning “the pledge of allegiance and the Nazi salute” on the Michigan IMC website, a note that only appeared on said site because I was criticizing said post’s absurdity) to the statements posted on The Planet’s website.

As I have already pointed out, said reference does not exist on our website, you said they did, I called you a liar, you called me a stupid asshole, I called you a disinformationist. Since the references that you claimed were on our site do not exist on our site, that means you ARE a liar, and your repeated attempts to vindicate a position I’ve proven false means you are a tenacious liar, one who sticks by lies that have been proven to be lies, and hence you are a disinformationist.

So you made the assertion that “hereâ€™s a hint about misquoting, adam: without quoting there can be no misquoting. itâ€™s easy to recognize quoting: look for quotation marks, you know, those little tick marks that look like a pair of nazi salutes.”

What you have said there is that because you didn’t “quote” me I could not have been “misquoted.”

You have a point here: you did not say, flat out, that The Planet’s site contained “some nutty rhetoric having to do with the pledge of allegiance, the nazi salute, and all other manner of conspiratoria.”

But what you DID say was that “i surfed over to the a2planet web page and somehow found myself deep into some nutty rhetoric having to do with the pledge of allegiance, the nazi salute, and all other manner of conspiratoria.” That is a quote.

And the distinction between the two is trivial, because you had attempted to portray statements that I was speaking AGAINST as statements I was MAKING (by linking them from the site).

As I stated before, that is a deliberate attempt to deceive, because there is no possible way that you could have mis-construed the posting for anything other than a criticism of somebody else.

If I were to post a comment on arborupdate.com that you refer to people who disagree with you as “big fucking assholes,” you would be rightfully indignant that I had taken your comment out of context. But that’s precisely what you deliberately did, to me and The Planet. You took something totally out of context for the sake of reversing the meaning of it.

Calling my response “a long-winded rant” is an ad-hominem attack. My responses are thorough and spirited, and again you’ve deliberately selected adjectives that malign my intentions. More defensive deception. “Quoting [my] blog at length” was nothing but a complete evaluation of the issue in question, something every investigator does. Yet again you attempt to spin it as a rhetorical trick. More deception.

And then labeling legitimate concerns of “misquoting, intent to deceive, disinformation, ulterior motives, yadda yadda yadda,” as “paranoid,” even though that is precisely what you did. More deception.

And claiming I conceded your post was accurate. More deception.

And then, claiming “nothing i said in my post did you any harm.” Actually, this site is watched, and rumors spread, and there was harm in it. More deception.

The insincere apology. More deception.

And your final line, with all of its malaise and sarcasm, really says it all. You are defensive because you were caught in a lie, and I called you out.

I invite anyone else reading this to visit http://www.a2planet.com/blog/2005/12/us_press_hides_its_neonazis_jo.html

which is the article in question. Please note:

First click on the title, which is a link to the original article, the article which Peter Honeyman has insinuated is ‘guilty by association’ with The Planet’s page. Then, close the new browser window and review the comments that I had posted concerning the article.

You will see that The Planet has done nothing but criticize the author of the posting.

The linked michiganimc.org article talks about the Nazi salute and the Pledge of Allegiance–an article which is blatantly written for the profit of one Rex Curry. The Planet blog’s article talks about how the article is deceptive and dishonest.

Thus it is obvious that instead of attacking my thesis (that Honeyman is associating/confusing my blog with the very thing it attacks), Peter Honeyman has nit-picked about the difference between direct quotes and clear insinuations, sidestepping the truth value of the Planet blog entirely.

I do not doubt that Peter Honeyman believes “straight from the heart” that I’m “a big fucking asshole.” Primal hatred is the instinct of someone who’s been cornered.

So, Peter Honeyman, I am saying this to you:

You are a fraud, you are a shill, you are a liar, and you are far worse than just being a “fucking asshole.”

You spread lies about good people, and worse, you attempt to make us out to be that bad guys, using your absurd and blatantly manipulative rhetoric to link us to Nazi conspiracy-fetishists.

You make it seem that we spread the very message that we explicitly condemn. You count on your readers to not check the source, and thus take them for fools.

You put your credibility on the line in doing so, which raises the question: why? Why would you risk embarassing yourself (as it has turned out that you have) for the sake of some trivial issue?

Everything you’ve said has been shown to be a lie. Even that your deceptions are “harmless” (”that’s the point”) since raising suspicion about a controversial store is obviously not harmless.

You are a fraud, you are a discredited fraud, you’ve undermined your own reputation, and you should be embarassed about it.

You can heap more BS onto the pile, and it might elicit another time-wasting response from me but it will only serve to vindicate the causes that I stand behind.

This started with a nasty insinuation that you had made and now that it’s blown up in your face you think raising the bet will get you out of it. Sorry but you made a bad move.

Nothing you can say will disprove the fact that you were wrong in the first place to associate The Planet with Nazi salutes and the Pledge of Allegiance.

You keep your ulterior motives (which you shrug off as “yadda yadda yadda”) hidden and make them all the more suspect. And now everything you say is suspect.

Now that you’ve been put in your place, this will be the last time I rise to your bait, unless you have a legitimate concern–one not based on distortion or other forms of bullshit–that I must address.

Call me an asshole again. Please. I love it. Shoot your other foot, dig your intellectual grave, make yourself and whatever you represent look even more foolish. Go ahead.

Agent provocateur scumling.

http://www.a2planet.com/blog/
posted by Adam de Angeli on December 30th, 2005 at 4:00 am
I FUCKING HATE HIPPIES. Idealism is idiotic–you can shut your eyes to the world if you like, but remember that when your head is up your ass, the rest of the world has to clean up your goddamn mess.

I’ve seen 8 people in front of the post office on my lunch break, PROTESTING 3 DIFFERENT ISSUES. It was just… pathetic. Adam, you’re not making the world a better place. You’re just engaging in a little mental masturbation and “yeah me too’s”. Move to Alabama and see if you can make a “difference” THERE. At least you’ll leave us the hell alone.

I’ll be thrilled when there’s a sizable conservative population here. At least there will be some real discussion.

Oh, and you can take your conspiracy theories and shove them up your self righteous asshole.
posted by I Kick Hippies on December 30th, 2005 at 12:15 pm
Ah, yes… The mark of a real discussion (or someone who knows what one is) is definitely the presence of “I FUCKING HATE [insert generalized group here]” and invitations to shove things into bodily orifices.

This comment thread now has as much meaningless anger as a Star Trek versus Star Wars debate… Did everyone have a rough Christmas/Chanukah/Solstice?
posted by FAA on December 30th, 2005 at 2:40 pm
Jesus Tapdancing Christ! Adam and Peter, could you please just get out the tape measure already and put this little competition to rest?! Neither of you is being the least bit productive here, and neither of you has really said anything of substance in the entire stream of vitriol.

(Though I have to admit, Adam, that insinuating that Honeyman is a spook made me laugh pretty hard. Have you ever met him?)
posted by Murph on December 30th, 2005 at 3:49 pm
Murph–

Maybe not a spook, but a common hater.

To everyone else–

point made. on with my life.

Peace and the stankiest weed-addled hippie yippie love to all of you
posted by Adam de Angeli on December 30th, 2005 at 5:09 pm
I don’t really understand the rage here, but the tape measure suggestion is fascinating!
posted by OFWinsurgent on December 30th, 2005 at 5:18 pm
aw, c’mon murph, you’ve never played online poker before? you know, where you poke the nutcase and reap the rewards? haven’t i seen you play this game with blaine?

and what a live one we have here! i’m getting a consistent seven-to-one return on investment, as much as twenty-to-one at times!
posted by peter honeyman on December 30th, 2005 at 5:24 pm
Okay, I’ve posted the 9/11 essay on my blog. Have at it.
posted by Larry Kestenbaum on December 30th, 2005 at 5:42 pm
…did someone mention “stanky weed”? That’s the Ann Arbor I love!
posted by Sketchy on December 31st, 2005 at 1:34 am
I’ll just have another growler of Skull & Bones Ale, thanks.
posted by Dave on December 31st, 2005 at 11:13 am
Here you go, Larry!
http://www.a2planet.com/blog/kast-911.html
posted by Adam de Angeli on December 31st, 2005 at 7:15 pm
And I have posted a response to Adam’s rebuttal.
posted by Larry Kestenbaum on January 2nd, 2006 at 6:01 am
… I’m eagerly awaiting a discussion of the “faked moon landing” now.
posted by Sketchy on January 2nd, 2006 at 11:58 am
Wow, wish I had been here when this all went down. I have been aware of the planet for a while, I think I read about it in the Ann Arbor Observer article. I remember thinking that it wouldn’t last long and would have a hell of a time keeping it’s doors open. Then I posted something on the just about dead MichIMC the other day and got a response from Adam de Asshole. He pointed me to his blog, where you can’t leave feedback/comments, and then got interested in the whole 911 thing between him and larry, and ended up here too.

First-
Adam, get off your high horse. You post like your shit don’t stink, and your so 100% right about everything. Second, I would love to take some time and really pull apart on your studpid conspiracy theory’s, but I don’t have a life thats subsidized by my mom and dad, and yes, actually have to work for a living.

Second-
Larry, Peter, the rest here, Give him Hell for me! Didn’t take much of this Adam de Assholi’s writing to make me agree with him being a giant asshole. Man this guy, I wonder if his parents will fund me to sit around and spew shit?

Adam, did you actualy graduate from UoM?

Just a Voice
posted by Just a Voice on January 2nd, 2006 at 2:26 pm
JaV, I don’t know Adam, but to me your post indicates you are much more of an asshole than he is.
posted by OFWinsurgent on January 2nd, 2006 at 2:56 pm
…politicians have a very difficult time keeping their sex lives a secret, let alone trying to hide something like a 9/11 conspiracy as has been detailed….
posted by Sketchy on January 2nd, 2006 at 10:31 pm
A classic in internet mentalism.

The 9/11 shit is hilariously deranged though. “I HAVE EVIDENCE ON HUNDREDS OF BLOGS!”

So does Gene Ray.
posted by js on January 3rd, 2006 at 4:57 pm