ann arbor is overrated.

We Want to Make A2 in the Future What It Has Always Been in the Past

A Chapel Hill group goes to A2 on a “fact-finding mission” that might help determine the future of their town.

UNC Chancellor James Moeser, who is familiar with both those universities and their leaders, believes Ann Arbor in particular was once right where Chapel Hill is now. Visiting Ann Arbor, he said, would give the council a good taste of where Chapel Hill might well be headed.

By that logic, we should be sending a fact-finding mission to Boulder to see what happens when greenbelts and couch bans contribute to a level of yuppification that’s ridiculous even by (current) Ann Arbor standards. Of course, there was another reason for choosing A2; the group didn’t want to go anywhere too nice “lest this particular fact-finding mission look too much like a cushy junket.” We think they chose well.

28 Responses to “We Want to Make A2 in the Future What It Has Always Been in the Past”

Ass Arbor is “more urban” than Chapel Hill??????

What, is Chapel Hill sans buildings or something?
posted by morbidly midwestern on June 16th, 2005 at 12:55 pm
Maybe they mean that AA is 100 times filthier than Chapel Hill and has boarded-up storefronts.
posted by Nick on June 16th, 2005 at 2:26 pm
Ann Arbor is way more urban than Chapel Hill. The latter is far enough removed from the urban centers of Durham and Raleigh, 5-10 miles or so that’s not very built up, that it exists as its own little enclave. I rather enjoyed the town when I was there a year ago, having to search for any sort of strip mall with a grocery store or a McDonalds. Much different than here.
posted by Anonymous on June 16th, 2005 at 2:43 pm
Having to search for strip malls and McDonalds is different than here? I guess driving all over doesn’t count as searching?
I never see these things, not that I’d care to (except for the grocery store part).

I spent the last week or so around Boston and Chicago. I do miss civilization. Nothing like being able to live in a neighborhood which you actually want to live in without having to rely on a car for basic ammenities. Come to think of it, maybe I should have stocked up on toothpicks while I was away.

-Nick
posted by ramsey on June 16th, 2005 at 3:06 pm
I spent the last week or so around Boston and Chicago. I do miss civilization. Nothing like being able to live in a neighborhood which you actually want to live in without having to rely on a car for basic ammenities.

And which neighborhood in Chicago would you live in if you wanted to be able to hop on the bike and go for a daily ride like this?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36857034@N00/sets/462995/show/

(And yes, I’ve ridden the lakefront bike paths many times, and they’re great as long as you don’t mind dodging herds of other bikers, runners, baby-strollers, and tourists in fanny packs).

One of the nice things about living in the midst of a smaller concentration of ‘civilization’ is you can pedal right out of it in a few minutes. I wouldn’t trade my bike ride for being able to walk to the grocery store or to get an italian beef sandwich (and I love italian beef with hot peppers).
posted by mw on June 16th, 2005 at 4:23 pm
Nice pictures of the REAL Ann Arbor greenway.
posted by Dale on June 16th, 2005 at 4:37 pm
“One of the nice things about living in the midst of a smaller concentration of ‘civilization’ is you can pedal right out of it in a few minutes.”

Is that a compliment to AA or an insult?
posted by Nick on June 16th, 2005 at 4:41 pm
Well, if we don’t get the greenway, downtown will rapidly descend into an oppressive, uncivilized free-for-all anyway.
posted by ann arbor is overrated on June 16th, 2005 at 4:54 pm
I don’t bike, but if I did I can’t imagine wanting to bike on dirt roads and narrow walking bridges over shallow muddy rivers.
Those pictures give the eerie sense that I’m watching a Morgan Freeman movie.

The Chicago lakefront seems incomparably more sightly to me. Parts of the path are very busy at times, but generally not the parts near where I’ve lived (Hyde Park) or would like to live (way North).

-Nick
posted by ramsey on June 16th, 2005 at 4:58 pm
I don’t bike, but if I did I can’t imagine wanting to bike on dirt roads and narrow walking bridges over shallow muddy rivers.
Those pictures give the eerie sense that I’m watching a Morgan Freeman movie.

Muddy? Tell you what–next time you’re in Chicago, go out to the Forest Preserves and wade into the Des Plaines River. Then you’ll know muddy. Seriously–I grew up around Chicago, and the two river colors I was familiar with as a kid were gray and opaque (Des Plaines River) and green and opaque (Fox River/Chain O’Lakes). In the Fox, we used find clams on the bottom by feeling around with our toes (because you certainly couldn’t see the bottom if you were standing waist deep). I don’t know how far from Chicago you’d have to go to find a river with water as clear as the Huron. I’d say Wisconsin except that Fox River runs out of Wisconsin.

Dirt roads? Yeah the roads north and west of AA are pretty ugly–parks, farms, an old country church or two, rapids, riding stables, iron bridges, woods, hills…I guess it must seem pretty weird that I find that kind of stuff relaxing and enjoyable.
posted by mw on June 16th, 2005 at 7:36 pm
Yeah, really. Those unsightly peaceful old graveyards. Those messily leaf-covered bends on Huron River Drive along the river in the fall. Those obnoxious centennial farms. Feh.
posted by bike newt on June 16th, 2005 at 7:59 pm
Ramsey,

You’re kidding, right? I mean, you can’t enter this city without encountering some sort of shopping complex with a grocery store. Chapel Hill didn’t have that “quality”.
posted by Anonymous on June 17th, 2005 at 10:50 am
mw: I make no claims about random Chicago rivers, save that they have little to no bearing on the Huron’s mud content. And yeah, I do find enjoying that scenery a little weird, but that’s probably just because I grew up immersed in it in central IL.
Just a taste thing, I suppose.

anon: Nope, I’m not kidding. I presume you are referring to “entering town” in a car. My complaint is that you cannot LIVE downtown easily without a car. There are no full-service grocery store, for example, within easy walking distance of my apartment.

Anyone want to write a song called “density” to the tune of “respect”? Something like,

D-E-N-S-I-T-Y
Cuz I like to walk and buy

Ok, that’s bad.

-Nick
posted by ramsey on June 17th, 2005 at 11:51 am
Cue the violins

Ramsey can’t LIVE easily without a car.
..could ride the bus…or bike.

But those take effort too…
posted by Anonymous on June 17th, 2005 at 1:00 pm
In fairness to Ramsey, biking back to town from Scio Township with a backpack full of wine bottles would not be fun. The anonymous person may be forgetting that one has to get one’s groceries back home after buying them, which sucks here if you don’t have a car.
posted by Nick on June 17th, 2005 at 3:06 pm
It’s just a mile out Liberty to Stadium Blvd where the supermarkets are. Suck it up. Oh, but you’d have to cross the OWS. All that green space, yuck!
posted by cue the sad violins on June 17th, 2005 at 3:36 pm
Face it, life just sucks if you don’t have a car no matter where you live. People in the subdivisions complain about how far it is to the shopping too, really, all the time, believe me.
posted by cue the sad violins on June 17th, 2005 at 3:43 pm
It is 1.8 miles to Stadium and Liberty from Huron and Division, heart of the OFW. No one’s going to walk that in 10-degree temperatures and drag their groceries back. And the alternative isn’t moving to the subdivisions; it’s moving somewhere like Boston, where it definitely doesn’t suck not to have a car.
posted by ann arbor is overrated on June 17th, 2005 at 3:50 pm
The way they drive in boston, it IS good not to have a car.

So maybe it’s more than 1 mile, but maybe it’s not 10 degrees very often too. And for that, there’s the bus.
posted by cue the sad violins on June 17th, 2005 at 3:57 pm
Arguing for Ann Arbor on the grounds of bad Boston drivers is taking highway safety concerns to a whole new extreme.
posted by Anna on June 17th, 2005 at 4:59 pm
I make no claims about random Chicago rivers, save that they have little to no bearing on the Huron’s mud content. And yeah, I do find enjoying that scenery a little weird, but that’s probably just because I grew up immersed in it in central IL. Just a taste thing, I suppose.

The point is that the are rivers so clouded with mud you can’t see more than a couple inches into them, but the Huron isn’t one of them–you can see the bottom everywhere. It may not be as clean as it appears, but this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36857034@N00/sets/468818/show/

is just not a muddy river.

Central IL? I know that well, too (my grandparents lived near Galesburg and I still have relatives in the area). Different scenery there. Out on the prairie, flat as a pancake for the most part, miles of arrow-straight roads, endless corn fields, very exposed–little shade and nothing to block the wind. That wouldn’t be my ideal area for biking, either (though I do notice and appreciate the big, open sky when I’m there).

In fairness to Ramsey, biking back to town from Scio Township with a backpack full of wine bottles would not be fun.

So get a folding bike trailer for grocery shopping. We’ve got one left over from when the kids were little. Once in while we use it to pick up groceries (or, more often, plants from the farmer’s market). Holds quite a bit, actually (definitely a hell of a lot more than you can carry walking with a lot less effort). And don’t go all the way out to Stadium and Liberty–the Kroger on Industrial or even Whole Foods are closer than that (and you can get to both riding through residential neighborhoods almost the whole way–Burns Park to Kroger or AA Hills to Whole Foods).
posted by mw on June 18th, 2005 at 7:39 am
There are lots of barns, tree-lined roads, little creeks, etc. in Central IL.

And yes, I could ride a bike, take a bus, etc. to get my groceries. I’m aware of that. But I don’t want a bike any more than I want a car. I don’t like bikes. I like to walk. I don’t mind the bus so much, and I appreciate that Ann Arbor has public transportation. It’s great for the occasional trip to the mall and what-not.
I just think that it’s speaks very poorly of the layout of this place that I should have to rely on such a thing for very basic stuff like groceries. Sometimes you’re in a hurry, need a last-minute ingredient, etc.

Moreover, I feel like the conditions downtown that might lead to grocery store could lead to other cool stuff. Maybe a real drug store? Some more (and better) cafes? A decent movie theater?

-Nick
posted by ramsey on June 18th, 2005 at 1:27 pm
So if this place sucks as much as you make it out to be, why are you still here? There are lots of schools you could have gone to, other jobs you could have taken. Go! If you didn’t do your geographic due-diligence before you moved here, it’s not Ann Arbor’s fault. Whiners…
posted by BlogLurker on June 18th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
I didn’t say that Ann Arbor sucks. I think it’s pretty good and has a lot of potential, but it has some serious problems (and some serious people who would hope to perpetuate them).

And, for the record, I’m here because the research environment in my area at UM is top-notch. I had my criteria, made my decision, and stand by it. It’s a temporary position, after all.

-Nick
posted by ramsey on June 19th, 2005 at 12:38 am
So we have NO right to expect anything better than this city has to offer and our evaluations of Ann Arbor are a matter of opinion. Maybe you want to point out that you’ve been here for 20 years and many of us, with only 4 or 5 years under our belts, are “temporary” residents and aren’t invested in the community.
posted by Dale on June 19th, 2005 at 9:34 am
it’s just funny that the people who complain about yuppification are the people who contribute most to the yuppiefication (grad students etc). there are problems with ann arbor, for sure, but stop making comparisons to chicago, i kind of like its own charm.
posted by Jonas! on June 20th, 2005 at 7:02 am
Yeah, I realize that “yuppification” is poor terminology, because it refers to a couple of different things, and the grad student kind is more or less the good kind.
posted by ann arbor is overrated on June 20th, 2005 at 12:30 pm
Interesting info
posted by good on September 2nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm

We Want to Make A2 in the Future What It Has Always Been in the Past

28 Responses to “We Want to Make A2 in the Future What It Has Always Been in the Past”

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