Turnabout is Fair Play
Just when we were getting used to the uniquely Michigan tradition of “coney islands,” we find out that in upstate New York, these establishments and the style of hot dog they’re known for serving are known as “michigans”. The archive of stories about michigans in the Plattsburgh Press-Republican is almost like something out of a bizarro-world Ann Arbor News, with a folksy local columnist, “Cheers and Jeers” column on the editorial page and laments about a past that’s slipping away (when a local baker stops making the “michigan rolls” on which the delicacy is usually served, citizens contact their state senator.) Except instead of a Michigan paper writing about something with a name that alludes to something in New York, it’s a New York paper writing about the same thing with a name that alludes to Michigan. We need to go lie down or something.
Is there a subsidiary of Harlequin to cover such florid, food-porn prose?
“That bun, vis-a-vis a standard hot-dog roll, is a top-loader, has crustless flanks and contains a much deeper opening to cradle the frankfurter. With the hot dog thus supine in the depths of the bun, plenty of space remains to house the sauce and, if the breathy customer prefers, the onions.”
Watch out MFK Fisher!
posted by OFW insurgent on February 12th, 2005 at 9:03 pmNow if only we could find evidence that a coney in Greece that sells Gyros is called an American Coney Island…
posted by George on February 13th, 2005 at 9:33 amInteresting. I’ve always wondered about the Coney Islands - there is nothing like it in Chicago or Philly. I recently went to Coney Island in NYC and there were no Coney Islands there either - only Nathan’s and a run down ferris wheel. But a Michigan dog! Probably michigan sauce is meatless chili? Is that what a coney island dog is? Natives - please inform me.
posted by DrMandrake on February 13th, 2005 at 11:10 amWhen I hitchhiked from Montreal to NYC in 1980, I was startled to see that every greasy spoon from the Canadian border to Albany advertised “MICHIGAN RED HOTS,” which, as far as I could tell, were hot dogs topped with chili, indistinguishable from what Detroit calls a “coney island”.
When I was in Houston, Texas, around that time, I noticed that what I was accustomed to calling a “sub” is known there as a “po’boy”. In other towns, the same kind of thing is called a “grinder” or a “hero”.
Names for sandwiches seem to be one of the few survivals of regional variation in American English.
posted by Larry Kestenbaum on February 13th, 2005 at 1:48 pmAAIO — this post actually made me laugh out loud. Thanks.
posted by Anna on February 13th, 2005 at 1:58 pmOh, another thing. In Upstate New York, the state of Michigan has a weirdly idyllic reputation.
When I went to grad school in Ithaca NY, locals who heard I was from Michigan often gaped at me, and asked what possessed me to leave such a great place to come HERE?
It was as if I had left behind an affluent lifestyle Paris or San Francisco to move to a menial job in an ugly and polluted mining town in Siberia.
Ithaca is underrated.
posted by Larry Kestenbaum on February 13th, 2005 at 2:00 pmBy the way, If Ann Arbor is going to exist in some strange parallel universe, how fitting that it be Plattsburgh, NY.
posted by Anna on February 13th, 2005 at 2:02 pmI always thought there were some slight differences from po’ boys to grinders to subs. In New Orleans, for example, they stuff things into po’ boys that you’d never see in a sub here — things like shrimp and oysters. Of course, that might just be the result of a town’s proximity to the sea. Speaking of New Orleans sandwiches though, a muffuletta is definitely unique (and very tasty).
As for Michigan being idyllic — well, I’ve lived here my entire life and maybe what the Ithacans need is for someone to forward them that old email that was circulating a few years back, “You Know You’re Michigan When…” Items like “You refer to summer as three months of bad sledding” and “You can name the two seasons: winter and construction” might set them straight.
…nevertheless, Michigan’s home for me in every sense of the word, so I’ll probably still be talking about coney islands and pasties to curious natives on whatever tropical island I end up retiring on. I love to sometimes poke fun at Michigan and especially Detroit, but there’s no escaping it’s “where I’m from.”
posted by Dave on February 13th, 2005 at 3:05 pm(singing) “Yes! Michigan…”
posted by meg on February 13th, 2005 at 9:23 pmMichigan’s shortage of what would be “diners” in any other state is made up for by the ubiquity of coneys (the restaurant itself, not the food).
I wonder if NY’s idyllic image of MI has anything to with MI, and especially AA/Washtenaw, being settled by NY speculators in the 1800s? (A recent Observer article traced the source of township names, most from NY.) Do they sit around the fireplace saying, “I remember back when Augie Woodward left for the Great Yonder of MI. Supposedly he named some town after a Greek revolutionary. Maybe someday they’ll name an avenue after him. Yeah, Augustus Avenue, that has a nice ring to it!”
posted by c friggs on February 14th, 2005 at 10:42 amOnce you get out of SE Michigan, the state is pretty nice. And even if A2 is overrated, it still is a pretty decent city to live in (ducking). OK, Lansing, Saginaw, and Flint are all pretty lame towns. K-Zoo and Ypsi are pretty cool. I know a lot of people who think the UP is the greatest place in the world.
Still, I agree that MI is not some sort of utopia, but being a native I usually don’t like joining these Michigan hate-fests.
posted by James on February 14th, 2005 at 11:02 amIf you think AAIO’s comment board is a hate-fest, you must have missed the heyday of alt.flame on Usenet.
posted by Larry Kestenbaum on February 14th, 2005 at 11:12 amThis is something I discovered in Quebec as well. I lived in Montreal for two years before I finally asked what a Michigan-dog/hamberger was. I was told that it had pasta sauce on it. It wasn’t until I was back in Michigan eating a Coney dog that it click, in some sick way the Quebecois took chile for pasta sauce and covered there food with it calling it Michigan. Of all the things to be exported from Michigan….
posted by Ben Heumann on February 14th, 2005 at 12:46 pmOn a tangetial note, a “Michigan bankroll” used to mean a hundred dollar bill wrapped around a roll of ones.
posted by Michael McC. on February 14th, 2005 at 12:46 pmSo this posting peaked my interest…I had never had a coney island dog, and I figured that now is the time to try it. So I looked around for the most disgusting Coney Island I could find, and right in Ypsilanti there was a Coney Island that fit the bill - full of chain smoking derelicts and other unsavory, raffish, shady characters. I ordered a coney island dog. Disgusting. You Michigan people sicken me. It was a dog smothered in canned chili and covered in onions and mustard. I almost vomited, and couldn’t finish it. In other sane places I’ve lived - Chicago and Philadelphia - we simply call it a chili dog, and no one orders it because you have Philly Cheese Steaks in Philadelphia and Chicago dogs in Chicago. Once again, Michigan has disappointed me.
posted by DrMandrake on February 14th, 2005 at 2:48 pmYou haven’t had a coney dog until you’ve stumbled into Detroit’s venerable Lafayette Coney Island at 3am after a night of drinking and ordered one of theirs.
posted by Dave on February 14th, 2005 at 3:24 pmamen, dave.
posted by OFW insurgent on February 14th, 2005 at 3:39 pmDrMandrake - was it Abe’s Coney Island? I used to go there a lot, but always just for coffee and scrambled eggs after 2 am.
Larry - that’s really weird how people think of Michigan as this idyllic place. I guess in Ithaca they have the cold, which many people are mistakenly convinced is the only bad part of living here.
posted by ann arbor is overrated on February 14th, 2005 at 3:47 pmIF you want a good coney dog, hit michigan ave in jackson, downtown. There are two or three places all in a row that are excellent, though they look as seedy as can be. They don’t use the canned nastiness that you get at most coney places here. Viginia Coney Island is by far my favorite.
posted by Ryan on February 14th, 2005 at 3:51 pmDoc M was looking for the “most disgusting” Coney Island he could find…thus, he got what he was looking for…not that there is a huge jump from the lowly to the most sublime of Coneys for Christsake.
I still want to go out drinking beer with him though.
posted by OFW insurgent on February 14th, 2005 at 4:45 pmI think DrM and Nick would be great friends. Whatever happened to old Nick…
posted by Alex(andra) on February 14th, 2005 at 7:02 pmFor all you people that dis Michigan…:P
There are some really nice places in Michigan. You go to Traverse City in the summer and the number of Illinois plates is amazing. The UP is pretty nice. The state doesn’t have the big city charm but there are nice things besides cities.
posted by Kozzie on February 14th, 2005 at 8:08 pmLet’s get back to the topic at hand…
I think the “Great Eats in the Ann Arbor Streets” gal could learn alot about food writing at the knee of the editorial staff of the Plattsville Republican…just think about the justice that could be done to HONEY B AKED HAM with the right , um, know-how.
posted by OFW insurgent on February 14th, 2005 at 8:44 pmKozzie, in my experience growing up in Western Michigan, Illinois plates tend to make a place far LESS nice. (No offense, AAIO).
posted by Brandon on February 14th, 2005 at 11:23 pmWell, ever since they ditched the nice clean lower-case for that Lincoln head design…
posted by ann arbor is overrated on February 15th, 2005 at 12:06 amYou haven’t had a coney dog until you’ve stumbled into Detroit’s venerable Lafayette Coney Island at 3am after a night of drinking and ordered one of theirs.
Posted by Dave at February 14, 2005 03:24 PM
amen, dave.
Posted by OFW insurgent at February 14, 2005 03:39 PM
All Hail! Dave! …. and how right you are, even
posted by toasty on February 15th, 2005 at 9:58 amif you stumble a tad and go next door (heh).
Gotta give my testimony in favor of Angelo’s in Flint for getting a good coney. Quite the cross section of humanity in the original joint on a Saturday night.
posted by Thomas Cook on February 15th, 2005 at 12:12 pmThomas,
Angelo’s is a whole other school of “coney dog.” IIRC, Angelo’s coney sauce is more of a spiced ground beef than a meaty, beanless chili that tops Detroit-style dogs…
posted by Scott T. on February 15th, 2005 at 1:38 pmThere’s my Flinttown crew! Anyone from Flint knows that there are two genres of Coney dogs: Flint-style and Detroit-style. Detroit-style is all runny and nasty, just a dog with chili on top. Flint-style on the other hand, is coney perfection, with freestanding meat sauce, raw onions, mustard, and a Koegel’s dog. The original ones can be found at Tom Z’s coney island downtown. Accept no subsitutes.
posted by Erica Olsen on February 15th, 2005 at 2:13 pmIt sounds like the Flint-style coney might be closer to New York System hot dogs served in Providence, RI. New York System is also a variation on the “chili dog” and is topped with a “meat sauce” that is not chili. However, what really distinguishes a New York System hot dog from Michigan coneys is that they are a short hot dog — maybe only four inches long.
The trick to ordering a coney island is to get a combination which is a coney topped with “loose burger” (seasoned ground beef) in addition to chili, plus the onions and mustard. The ground beef makes for a meatier chili.
posted by Eric on February 15th, 2005 at 3:02 pmOh my god.
posted by Anna on February 15th, 2005 at 3:28 pmI can’t eat anything that has the word “loose” as part of its name.
posted by OFWinsurgent on February 15th, 2005 at 4:23 pmI had Angelo’s once….can’t find it now….Will have to go there again though…
posted by Kozzie on February 15th, 2005 at 8:58 pmAngelo’s is crap since they sold out. Crap. Their dogs used to be sublime, however.
“Sparty’s” Coney in East Lansing offers both Detroit and Flint-style on their menu. It makes for an interesting (and authentic) comparison.
posted by Joe on February 17th, 2005 at 10:53 amThe first and last time I was in Abe’s, I witnessed an armed robbery. Too sober to imagine those men with guns, but too drunk to stop eating my michiconey, I fortunately emerged from the event valuables intact, and covered in chilli. I have stayed away from Abe’s ever since; not because of the possibility of another crimespree, but because I realized that no night would ever reach such riveting heights.
And for all you Lafayette lovers, American next door is much better. I have an autographed (thanks again Dino!) paper waiter’s cap that I proundly wear during every visit.
posted by HousePainter on February 18th, 2005 at 3:11 pmI have seen a “restaurant” identified as a Coney Island here in Portland, OR — but will never try it.
posted by Orful Otis on February 18th, 2005 at 4:08 pmNo…. no… Ithaca’s about as overrated as Ann Arbor. Gorges > The Arb for sure, but both are overpriced and pretentious generally.
It was OK spending a summer there, but I don’t think I could handle much more than that. Besides, I shudder to think about trying to walk on those hills when the ice and snow hit.
posted by Jen on February 19th, 2005 at 11:41 amIthaca is prettier. But it’s much smaller. It’s like boiled-down Ann Arbor…
posted by Scott T. on February 24th, 2005 at 5:54 pm