We Lived in Arizona…They Were Beautiful
We don’t know how we missed this mlive.com article from last weekend (via Past the College Grounds), which takes a look at what the author claims is one of the main factors causing young people to leave the state in droves: clouds. But, wait - clouds aren’t so bad! They protect you from getting wrinkles, and, anyway the young and hip are moving to places like Portland or Seattle, which they must not realize are even cloudier. (Not mentioned in the piece: clouds often signify the few above-20-degree days of the winter.)
Next week, mlive.com explores other key reasons people are leaving Michigan that, upon closer examination, turn out not to be so well-founded. The state’s name ends in an ‘n’? Lots of cool places end in ‘n’s. Just look at Boston, and Austin, and…come on, it’s all been a big misunderstanding. Where’s everyone going?
No, no– this week we tell you why Grand Rapids is such a cool city.
posted by icecreammotor on March 23rd, 2004 at 9:02 amClouds, huh? Well, I’m sure that folks moving on to sunny places like Texas, Phoenix, Riverside, and Bakersfield will find their quality of life improving dramatically.
Of course, we are overlooking the silent contingent who want to leave SE Michigan because of agoraphobia brought on by flat landscapes.
posted by Nick on March 23rd, 2004 at 11:34 amGod was that writing was awful, but to be fair that article does mention some of the cooler places in Grand Rapids– the conservatism of the overall area and poor music scene are turnoffs, but there are some good pockets, and it’s really damn cheap– my friends pay $400/month for a sizable 2-bedroom right above Redux Books. They actually left out a lot of the yuppie places downtown (often cited as the “cool” places) that really suck, so I’ll give the writer at least a little credit.
posted by Brandon on March 23rd, 2004 at 12:27 pmbrandon, stop being so elitist. Aren’t people with a little more money than you, yuppies as you call them, entitled to have fun at places they think are fun? Besides, I’m not a yuppie and love some of those places in downtown GR. Before you criticize it, try living there.
posted by paul on March 23rd, 2004 at 9:05 pmsince when did having some driblet of taste become “elitist,” for God’s sake?
posted by Laura on March 23rd, 2004 at 9:34 pmPaul:
A) Are’t the yuppies and Bobos the true elitists here? And I didn’t say they couldn’t have fun, I just said that such places aren’t cool.
B) Sorry, but you basically ARE a yuppie. Eg: GQ subscription, Burberry scarf, North Face jackets, tons of J. Crew apparrel, overpriced imported pots and knives, Pier 1 decor, etc. etc.
C) I don’t need to live there to know that the B.O.B. is not somewhere I or most of the people here would enjoy hanging out at.
D) I was actually defending the easily-mocked city, you twit. Vertigo is pretty cool, as is Eastown. And I’ve yet to go there, but this Division Area Arts Cooperative looks like a great addition to the scene over there– even Fred Thomas is playing coming up.
posted by Brandon on March 23rd, 2004 at 9:51 pmha ha… conservatism. I thought Brandon was being kind. If Grand Rapids is so cool, then why are 8% of the 25 to 35-year-olds leaving every year? I’d like to be behind an initiative that promotes listening to young people, but the claim that GR is in any way cool is a flat out lie. You can’t be cool and religiously oppressive.
posted by Hillary on March 23rd, 2004 at 9:59 pmThere was that one time at Plainfield Denny’s while I went to GVSU for a year. A woman in a booth next to ours stood up and pointed her little finger at me and told me I was going to hell.
No, she proclaimed it. Jesus-freak busybodies.
Then there was that time when Hillary and I went to see Marilyn Manson at DeVos Hall. There was a gauntlent of rapid christians praying for us, asking us not to go in.
These people are frightening.
posted by Steven B. Cherry on March 23rd, 2004 at 10:12 pmWhat a bunch of whiners. Grow up or go home to mommy.
posted by mucho gusto on March 23rd, 2004 at 10:17 pmLadies, ladies, you’re all pretty . . .
Seriously though, everyone is lame from someone else’s perspective. The only way to demonstrate true taste is to be above arguing about it.
posted by Nick on March 23rd, 2004 at 10:52 pmThanks Nick, my point made more eloquent.
posted by paul on March 23rd, 2004 at 11:11 pmAccording to the article, Grand Rapids has a TV station with the call letters WOOD–that alone makes it cool.
posted by Icy on March 24th, 2004 at 12:13 amLook at the competition in Michigan. Grand Rapids may in fact be one of the coolest places in Michigan, but that doesn’t say much. At least it is uncool in a somewhat weird way, whereas most of the other cities in Michigan are uncool in a reallt boring, suburban way. You can regale people with anecdotes about the weirdness ofGrand Rapids, but try regaling people with anecdotes about say, Birmingham.
posted by Lucky Jackson on March 24th, 2004 at 8:03 amDon’t take my word for it… everyone should visit Grand Rapids. Then Ann Arbor wouldn’t seem so bad. My mom wishes I would come home more often, but I limit my time in west Michigan to Christmas. It’s the only day I’m able to tolerate news stories about god performing miracles.
Mucho: What did you do besides boo at the mayor last week? Steve and I went to the Ypsi City Council meeting (Steve spoke), a fundraiser for the Ypsilanti District Library, and had dinner with other Ypsilantians to discuss ways to improve our city.
posted by Hillary on March 24th, 2004 at 11:52 amThat’s so nice of you Hillary. You’re such a nice person. You’re so community oriented. A credit to Ypsilanti. You’ll go far as long as you go along with the power structure. Something I am not prone to do.
Call me when the callous on your forehead needs some lotion.
(btw, thanks for your donation to Locks of Love. I donated 12″ last September)
posted by mucho gusto on March 24th, 2004 at 12:12 pmY’see, Hillary, when Mucho booed the mayor, in an instant the entrnched power systems crumbled and we were all able to see the truly human bond we all share. It was grooovy.
posted by js on March 24th, 2004 at 1:45 pmjs
Mucho, First you criticize “our” generation for not doing basically useless things like taking over the administration building to protest Vietnam. Then, when you hear that people in our generation are actually doing what your generation taught us to do (thinking globally, acting locally) — I am thinking of Todd, who’s doing his part for trying to change his corner of the universe, and Hillary and Steve, for trying to change theirs — you treat it with contempt. Then, maybe worse, you try a pathetic strategy of one-upsmanship (Was your point that your hair was longer? Or that your dick is 12″? Don’t you realize that we don’t care?)
I try not to swear, but you are really an asshole.
posted by Anna on March 24th, 2004 at 1:50 pmThanks anyway Gusto, we feet-on-the-ground not nihilist advice. Help or to piss up a rope old man.
posted by Steven B. Cherry on March 24th, 2004 at 2:39 pmThanks anyway Gusto, we feet-on-the-ground not nihilist advice. Help or go piss up a rope old man.
posted by Steven B. Cherry on March 24th, 2004 at 2:39 pmSteve, I like you, but that was two ESL posts in a row.
posted by js on March 24th, 2004 at 2:40 pmjs
Okay, okay, a grudging “heh”.
posted by Anna on March 24th, 2004 at 2:44 pmAs a complete tangent, Anna when you said “you criticize ‘our’ generation for not doing basically useless things like taking over the administration building to protest Vietnam” are you saying this for rhetorical power, or because you think that the ant-Vietnam student protests were useless? How is attending a city council meeting more useful? And isn’t it like comparing apples and oranges anyway: the former action being intended to disrupt the status quo, the latter, to participate in it?
social movement scholars want to know!
posted by Alex on March 24th, 2004 at 2:51 pmAlex, the Mucho crap has a long history, so that may have seemed somewhat out of the blue to you (see some of the Jan. and Feb. posts).
But to answer your question, my (admittedly non-scholarly) opinion: Yes, I think that taking over a college building in a small midwestern college city is a basically meaningless and ineffective gesture. No, I don’t think it’s like comparing apples and oranges.
Call me overly-pragmatic, but I think it’s best to do things that are effective, whether it be in science or in life. And I think that getting involved in the community, making your voice heard — when the people on the receiving end are in a position to actually do something — is a better use of everyones’ (limited) time.
posted by Anna on March 24th, 2004 at 3:02 pmI think it’s great that mucho donates. I bet we have a lot in common. That’s what I find most frustrating about these exchanges… we’re bickering with eachother instead of going after the man.
We need both protesters and people who will speak at meetings. We also need more candidates for city offices.
I doubt the City of Ypsi would describe what Steve and I do as “going along with the power structure”. In fact, I think they’re a little afraid of us right now, and that’s good.
posted by Hillary on March 24th, 2004 at 3:09 pmHillary, I would agree if Mucho were a reasonable guy, but he’s never going to join your team.
posted by Anna on March 24th, 2004 at 3:23 pmAlthough we should give mucho some credit - his booing of the mayor of a small midwestern town is clearly a brilliant opening gambit in a larger plan to effect the violent overthrow of our corrupt system.
posted by Nick on March 24th, 2004 at 4:49 pmHe’s the Midwest Molotov!
posted by js on March 24th, 2004 at 5:12 pm(And if Ypsi had more people like Hillary and Steve, it’d be assured of a recovery. While I’m not always down with the Libertarian economic beliefs they hold, their commitment to community involvement and intelligent dissent is what every town needs more of.)
I’ll be damned if that wasn’t a nice fucking thing to say. Hillary always says, “you can lead by fear or you can lead by example”.
posted by Steve on March 24th, 2004 at 6:11 pmIf I gave away many more of my secrets my identity would be compromised. Todd knows me professionally (but he’s not aware). I’ve been involved with the A2 community for quite a while and a long time $$$ donor of the Film Fest and other “community” institutions. In the early 70’s, I lived in Ypsi in a house on Cross St, just east of the bank and west of Perrin St. That’s where the Ypsi Food Coop was born. We printed t shirts and showed movies on campus to make rent.
The problem with “working from within” is that the Big Dogs can and will co-opt people like Hillary. They will schmooze and smile and suck away your energy. You’ll be told you’re “working for change” and that you’re “empowered”, when indeed all you’re doing is slowly giving up your ideals for money and perpetuating the staus quo. I’m trying not to place a value judgement on why that happens, but only stating how I have observed it over my half century, particularly the last 30 years.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s ok to desire wealth and comfort. But don’t expect to stay true to your youthful and egalitarian ideals if that’s what you truly desire. It’s so true that most people are liberal when they’re young and become conservative as they age. Bob Dylan was right, “You ain’t got nothin’ if you got nothin’ to lose”. Once you have something to lose it’s only natural that you work to protect it (the staus quo). And how do you get “something”? You get it by buying into the “system” and playing The Game! Don’t kid yourself, you’re all smarter than me and know exactly how that works. It’s much harder to to call truth to power when there’s a mortgage, kids and jobs at stake.
It’s hard for me to reconcile (but easy to observe and understand) your contradictions when you write about the “cool” places to live and work and how you want to be there and get a good job when you graduate and make changes for the good in our slowly decaying social structure. I said the same thing when I was young. But face it, for 99.9% of us, it just doesn’t work that way.
As an aging boomer I would much prefer that we all work for a national health care for every American (I call it socialized medicine). Your generation will need it a hell of a lot more than mine will.
I cut my hair to make my father a happy man. And my wife and sone are cancer survivors. Actually, I’m bald and donated my armpit hair.
posted by mucho (bark worse than bite) gusto on March 24th, 2004 at 6:53 pmWell, Mucho, I do sincerely hope that your wife and son are continuing to do well.
On the subject of “changing the world” and “working within the system”, I do think that your view is overly pessimistic. Clearly there are a lot of people in AA and at U-M who genuinely believe they can have everything - changing the world, having money, perpetually balanced responsibilities, etc. - I was no different when I was a college kid - and adult life does have cruel realities in store for them. But I also believe that individuals can do a lot within their particular corner of the world, and that doing things like giving of your time and really working on your community can make your immediate sphere a better place to be. You can’t do anything about others’ selfishness or fears, but you can do plenty about your own, and I generally believe that matters.
posted by Nick on March 24th, 2004 at 8:09 pmLet the truth be known that I believe we’ll all be in camps before this is all over.
Don’t let my involvement fool you, if I thought there was any other way to proceed without being hunted down like dogs by the feds, I would do it.
Bringing the ‘fight’ in any other non-sanctioned way is suicide in 2004. Any other course is damed naive.
posted by Steven on March 24th, 2004 at 10:26 pmHey Anna,
Because I don’t know any of the details about the whole “mucho exchange,” I’ll keep my comments brief. The one thing I do want to say is that “effectiveness” is not some positive absolute.
Effectiveness is merely a measure of whether or not you achieve your goals–it says nothing about what your goals are. If your goal is to have an impact on zoning policies or control government spending, then yes, participating in local government or other mainstream, existing bodies is probably the most effective method. If, however, you want to effect radical, fundamental change–say, abolish government, capitalism, and private property–going to City Council meetings is not likely to be very effective. Some people will never be happy with incremental change, and so for them, your “pragmatism” is the biggest waste of time there is. But I don’t believe that any one of us has the moral authority to define what are or aren’t worthwhile goals; we can merely set our own priorities, try to recruit others to our way of thinking, and then select our methods with those priorities in mind.
And, for what it’s worth, I think you are wrong that campus-based student protests during the Vietnam War were meaningless. Nor were they meaningless during the South African divestiture movement in the 1980s. Which isn’t to say that they’re useful or “effective” in all situations, at all times. But in those historical moments, and in combination, they had a tremendous impact.
This is also not intended as a vote for Mucho or some kind of critique of Steve and Hillary’s methods.
posted by Alex on March 25th, 2004 at 7:20 amTo me, “effective” means the most good for each unit of time. So, since voting takes a relatively short amount of time, voting is a good use of time. Not buying products produced by companies who are doing things you don’t approve of is a good use of time. Protesting in front of people who make decisions is a good use of time. Protesting in front of people who largely agree with you (college students, liberal city residents), and people who have nothing to do with the things you’re complaining about (school administrations) is a bad use of time.
Again, just my opinion.
posted by Anna on March 25th, 2004 at 10:12 amMucho, if you honestly know me professionally, then you know why I disagree so strongly with your assertion that buying in to the system is a bad thing.
As an example, in order to create a glass of beer, the average brewery in the world sends ten glasses of water down the sewer (or river). If you take all of the world’s beer production over the period of 12 months, this wastewater will be of a volume large enough to fill Lake Erie 3.1 times over.
At my brewery (this isn’t intended as a commercial folks, I’m just illustrating a point), we have reduced the water to wastewater ratio from 1:10 to 1:1.4. Obviously, this is an enormous reduction in water usage, but since we make only a few thousand hectoliters of beer a year, the reduction at my plant doesn’t really make much of a difference.
Not being an egomaniac, and realizing that my efforts are completely pointless on their own merits, I have been working with colleagues from my brewing school over the last five years (e.g. Head Corporate Brewer for Molson, Chief Engineer for Labatt’s, etc.), giving them data that they wouldn’t ordinarily be able to obtain—things like changes in cleaning regimes to reduce water consumption. As these people (and I mean people, not corporations) absorb some of the techniques that I employ at my dinky brewery and re-engineer their processes, my efforts to change the world for the better are realized.
Without “the system” or “the man” or whatever you want to call it, my efforts to make the world a better place are completely and utterly pointless. My brother and I don’t do what we do environmentally so that we can sleep better….we sleep just fine….we do it so we can effect change on the world, and we can’t do it without the help of corporations.
We have always told people who tour our plant that someone with a Chem. E. degree and a good heart can do much more for the world working for Monsanto then they ever could working for Leopold Bros. People don’t seem to like to hear that, but I believe that I speak the truth.
I guess that I don’t share your cynicism, mucho.
posted by todd on March 25th, 2004 at 12:08 pmVery much agreed that the worthwhile-ness of goals or priorities are a personal matter.
Some people (like me) are not just incrementalists, but actually prefer to work on issues which are concrete, tangible, achievable. In my political life, I have fought for things as seemingly trivial as benches and wastebaskets at bus stops.
Others are out for bigger game: they want to transform the culture, to “change the color of the sky”. Sometimes this works, but when it does, it happens in unexpected ways. Most often, it’s energy poured out into an unblinking void.
Sky-changers and bus-stop-furnishers inevitably see each others’ efforts as a waste of time. Let us be tolerant of one another nevertheless.
posted by Larry Kestenbaum on March 25th, 2004 at 12:18 pmEffect can only be judged by success or failure. Viet Nam era protests were effective in shortening the war and forcing Nixon to resign. WTO protest are ineffective because they are anarchic, speak to the choir and the media spins them as evil.
Since that time, the powers that be have learned many techniques for reducing the effect of protest, witness “free speech” areas miles away from the people that protesters want to affect, the chilling effects of intimidation by surveillance and harassment, the limiting of subject and speaking time at Ann Arbor city council meetings, just to name a few.
What this has done is limit our constitutional rights and to make people afraid of speaking out in public forums. Yes, sometimes it’s best to effect change from within, but that is a glacially slow process and those who are working for change can easily succumb to the frustrations of time and co-optation. On the other hand those limitations on civil liberties can have the other effect of precipitating civil disobedience and bad manners (booing Hieftje at the Film Fest) in those who believe in making the most of their rare free speech opportunities.
No, I didn’t expect the fall of the Hieftje regime or western democracy at the Film fest, but at least people in the audience heard that not everyone agrees with him and some folks have the cajones to exercise their rights outside of the system.
posted by mucho (old school) gusto on March 25th, 2004 at 12:26 pmI dig Larry K
posted by mucho gusto on March 25th, 2004 at 12:30 pmMucho, I would think that it was the work of two reporters working in the very heart of the system (together with a tough as nails editor and publisher) that forced Nixon to resign, not protests.
I think that it is fair to say that our life experiences are drastically different, but I think that we would both argee that getting of one’s ass is the first step in making the world a better place.
My dad told me since I was around 15: “Do *something*. Even if it’s wrong”. Smart man.
posted by todd on March 25th, 2004 at 12:40 pmI liked todd’s dad when I met him, still like him today
posted by mucho gusto on March 25th, 2004 at 12:48 pmI licked Mucho’s daughter when I did her. Still lick her today.
posted by torONTo on March 29th, 2004 at 4:16 pmImposter Rob, he’ll be here all week! Try the veal.
posted by js on March 31st, 2004 at 6:40 pmjs