AAPD Blue…Okay, We’ve Used That Title Before
Steve Cotner’s anti-AAPD (and DPS) screed, in which he details his experiences with Ann Arbor officers who “stalk parties for young drinkers, empty wallets looking for fake IDs, enter houses unannounced” and “interrogate a guy named Silver because he had a ’street’ appearance” is worth reading. A party at his house, Cotner says, was staked out by police looking for underage drinkers; they went “into stealth mode” when it suddenly turned into a violent brawl.
Cotner’s right.
Not all the AAPD cops are pigs. Only the one’s who have a chip on their shoulder and like wearing a badge. There isn’t a lot of heavy duty crime in A2 to satisfy the cowboys on the Force so they have to go out and get all macho and act like they own the place. They go through all this training and all they get to do is bust party goers and innocents so they feel a little frustrated.
They’ve been watching too many episodes of COPS. Bad boys, bad boys
posted by ppopshoot on February 19th, 2004 at 7:00 amThey are, after all, Ann Arbor’s finest.
posted by Alex on February 19th, 2004 at 7:37 amI dunno. The article is anecdotal and the author is biased. Also, there’s some parts that seem glossed over, like when he says “The cops said they couldn’t bring charges unless we gave them names [true enough], and when we gave them names, they gave some other excuse.” What does that mean? Did he give the cops the complete name, or just “Tim from the wrestling team”? What “other [unnamed] excuse” did the cops give? As far as the cops going into “stealth mode,”–maybe they got a call for a major car accident and had to make split-second prioritizing decisions. Maybe they didn’t see or realize that there was a fight going on. I’m neither for nor against the police–obviously there are good and bad cops, as in any profession–but it kinda seems to me like everything he says is shaped to fit his stated opinion of cops (”I don’t like police at all.”) He could have simply called the officers involved to get their side of the story. That would have been more balanced, fair, and possibly illuminating as far as the apparent ongoing miscommunication between students and police. Just my 2 cents.
posted by Laura on February 19th, 2004 at 8:36 pmLaura, is it really reasonable that they need names to bring charges? Is the lesson here that you need to make sure that, while you’re getting the shit kicked out of you, you grab the guy’s wallet? I would think that, if you’ve been attacked and beat up, a first name, a house, and a couple of witnesses should be far, far more than enough for police action. Fine, so the police didn’t realize a fight was going on. I assume that, when the police finally showed up, they *told* them, “hey, there was a fight, those guys from down the street jumped some of our guests.” Do the police have to see crime for it to exist?
Like you, I’m neither for nor against the police. But I do seem to be arguing the opposite completely neutral and objective view from the one you’re arguing here.
posted by Murph on February 19th, 2004 at 9:28 pmWell, the police’s hands are pretty much tied if they don’t have a name to go on. He says the cops arrived after the fight. and he also says the wrestlers are “from down the street”–no specific address given in the article, so it’s unclear if he knows which house the wrestlers live in. If he didn’t know which house, I doubt the cops have the time to knock on doors up and down the street.
posted by Laura on February 19th, 2004 at 10:08 pmI know it’s wrong and tremendously irritating that these guys allegedly stole food, but–I think in this case discretion would have been the better part of valor. Why didn’t he close & lock the door when the guys came back? It’s kinda stupid to mix it up with guys who apparently are just looking for a fight. Yes–it’s unfair that the food got ripped off [how much? a pack of beef jerky? the entire contents of the pantry?]. But you have to pick your battles.
To say the police require full information from victims is absurd. It is precisely because victims often don’t have this information that police are trained in *DETECTIVE* work. Why is it more in their purview to _detect_ underage drinkers than it is to _detect_ people who commit assault?
posted by Alex on February 19th, 2004 at 11:35 pmAlex, what is your basis in fact for claiming, via rhetorical question, that it is more in the AAPD’s purview to detect underage drinkers than it is to detect people who commit assault? Any statistics? The fact is that this guy’s story is biased and deficient of any inclusion of the cops’ side of the story. I’m the last person imaginable to be an apologist for cops, but I think it’s a tad naive for this guy to choose to tangle with the wrestlers when they came back the second time–instead of ignoring them, locking the door, or skedaddling–and then complain about how the cops didn’t immediately supply his idea of justice. There are some people you just can’t reason with, and these wrestlers seem to be such people. Best to avoid them instead of choosing to fight them upon their return to the writer’s house and then self-righteously slamming the cops who, I imagine, don’t have the time or manpower to patch together what sounds overall like a sketchy account of what happened.
posted by Laura on February 20th, 2004 at 12:33 amAll I’m saying is that it is knee-jerk fashion to criticize cops out of hand…but a more thoughtful and informed analysis, in all fairness, is warranted. OK, I’m done.
posted by Laura on February 20th, 2004 at 12:36 amIt sounded like it was his misguided roommates who tried to fight with the wrestlers, not him. The problem is that the AAPD has made no effort to dispel the notion that they’re more interested in ticketing underage drinkers than protecting students from fights like this one, even though they know that that’s their reputation. The officer who talked to the Daily after the fraternity brawl confirmed everything a lot of us have always suspected about A2 cops. The fact that they make comments like that show that they don’t even care enought about what students think to try to present themselves as fair and impartial.
An opinion columnist who’s “biased” doesn’t bother me, but I agree that it would have been a more interesting column if he’d made some attempt to get a quote from the AAPD. They probably wouldn’t have complied.
posted by ann arbor is overrated on February 20th, 2004 at 1:12 amLaura,
I made no claim that assault occurs more frequently than underage drinking–something that might be “proven” with statistics, although I am not convinced that anything is ever proven with statistics. Regardless, what I was saying is that assault is more serious, and therefore warrants more attention from the police, than underage drinking. Which at best is a “quality of life” crime, and at worst is a violation of an arbitrary law that criminalizes behavior the state doesn’t approve of.
I also didn’t say that I thought the author was unbiased, that his and his friend’s actions defied common sense, or that I disagreed with many of the other points you raise as well. All I’m saying is: 1)blaming the victim for being daft is not the appropriate response and 2)the police can, and very often do, work with incomplete information, and 3)the police have a stronger obligation to protect us from violence than from moral infractions.
posted by Alex on February 20th, 2004 at 8:09 amBut here in A2, the politicians prefer to “protect” us from moral infractions as much as other violations of law. it’s just an extension of political correctness run amuck.
posted by poop shoot on February 20th, 2004 at 11:51 amIt seems to me like there’s a real need to set up some kind of student-AAPD liason committee, based on the comments from Alex, AAIO, and others I read here. Clearly there’s a huge communications gulf and a lot of “notions” and “reputations” and so forth floating around that could be untangled with some dialogue–call me a dreamer. Casting my mind back to those dim days when I was s student, I imagine that I myself would think it very uncool to schmooze with the pigs on such a panel, but it seems things are at an unproductive standoff right now. I daresay that the cops & the students probably have the same ultimate goal: safe campus.
posted by Laura on February 20th, 2004 at 9:46 pmLaura=naive
posted by Anonymous on February 21st, 2004 at 8:44 amI think Laura is not all that naive. Part of the problem, yes, is that the A2 politicians (who run the AAPD, albeit at a few levels of removal), are more interested in what non-students want than in what students want. Keeping the students from being intoxicated and loud is probably higher on their list of priorities than students roughing each other up, as long as nobody got hurt.
On the other hand, dialogue would be good for a few things. The police could explain the procedures they follow and the constraints they operate under, helping to provide the “other side of the story” that Laura wants. In the other direction, the students could make it known that the police are *not* seen as a very helpful presence, and that students view police as an annoyance rather than a protective entity. I can’t guarantee this will make a difference (especially considering the political constraints), but it’s worth a try. Especially if it’s presented in the manner, “Students have a bad image of the police, and here’s why,” instead of, “You f***ing pigs! Why you gotta always be keeping us down!” Gotta be careful which students get onto that panel…
posted by Murph on February 23rd, 2004 at 2:32 pmHey, whoever, I specifically labeled the unlikeliness of my suggestion by saying “call me a dreamer.” Such liasons do exist in other cities–do a Google to read about them. Get a tad more informed before you insult people, in other words. Thank you Murph for covering my back–I agree with what you say. Worth a try, in my 2-cents opinion.
posted by Laura on February 23rd, 2004 at 8:54 pmLaura and the rest of you are naive to think that any kind of dialog betwen students and the powers that be will lead to any kind of improvement in town and gown relations. Most students who become involved in such exercises in futility are the kinds of students least likely to throw a couch or puke on a neighbors lawn. Most students who would be involved in any kind of liason-ing are just playing into the hands of the power structure. It’s an ego strip for them becasue they feel they are effecting “change”. Besides, students come and go on a regular basis and memories are short.
In my day is was called being co-opted.
posted by voice of experience on February 24th, 2004 at 12:53 pm