Less of the Same
Finally, a developer with a bold, innovative vision for Main Street, someone who’s not going to settle for the same old same old. Says Jim Curtis of Curtis Commercial, which is renovating 333 S. Main, “Ann Arbor is known for its caliber of restaurant, and I think we have ample high-quality restaurants currently. We’re also well-known for upscale jewelry, art and to some extent upscale women’s clothing. We’d like to see more of the latter than more of the same.”
The piece also notes that Starbucks will be opening at Main and Liberty, “bringing a high-profile chain presence to the block.” Well, about time.
Don’t see how you can get more high-profile than Subway, Sunglass Hut, or BD’s, but maybe I’ve underestimated Starbucks all this time.
posted by Nick on January 15th, 2004 at 12:31 pm“Main Street rents can range from $25 to $30 per square foot.”
You all wonder why things are so damn expensive in AA, this is why. You have to sell a whole lot of something to break even with rents like this. The financial pressure on a business along that corridor is stifling.
posted by todd on January 15th, 2004 at 1:24 pmAnd the proposed city income tax will only hurt businesses deciding to locate downtown
posted by mucho gusto on January 15th, 2004 at 1:37 pmAlthough it’s less than $2 / sf in Downtown Ypsi, don’t think that the Ypsi slumlords aren’t salivating at the supposed exodus. Speculation = “new Ypsi” DOA.
Maybe they can build that Ypsi-rejected Old Navy on Main in AA? It’ll add that Corporate flavor and less chi chi!
posted by Leighton on January 15th, 2004 at 2:15 pmWhat do you mean by “new ypsi” dead on arrival Leighton? Are you talking about some of the new projects?
Are you sure that rent is less than $2 per sf in downtown Ypsi? That’s less than the cost of light industrial in Anywhere, USA.
posted by todd on January 15th, 2004 at 2:37 pmI was wondering about the “new ypsi” = doa comment, too….
posted by Anna on January 15th, 2004 at 3:59 pmIf you want to see something that is truly atrocious, take a look at the Campus Partners project in Columbus. The University used eminent domain to buy up a lot of independent businesses — coffeeshops, used bookstores, bars, etc., that had been there for decades, and bullbozed them in order to bring in Barnes and Nobles, Starbucks, etc. Except that the project ran out of money, so now the entire High street area across from campus is a sort of a gigantic wasteland.
posted by Lucky Jackson on January 15th, 2004 at 4:29 pmThe more I hear about eminent domain, the more I feel hostility toward it. The same thing happened in New Haven — during Urban “Renewal” they bulldozed huge, vibrant neighborhoods (albeit somewhat run down ones, but with lots of mom and pop businesses, immigrant communities, etc.) and put in a highway extension that slices sections of the city in half and essentially just ends a couple blocks outside of the center of town — most of the rest of the projects were never built. I-95 also was put right through town separating the downtown from the waterfront, making it feel a million miles away (not that they could have avoided building 95, but they could have let it skirt the city to on its Western edge). It took citizen outrage to save a city square that was 300 years old and the buildings around it, many of which were historic gems and an area that was home to New Haven’s thriving Italian-American community. It makes me angry just thinking about it.
People in the city have been busting their butts to try to revive some of the downtown neighborhoods, and there’s a area that has finally turned around — nice restaurants (Indian, Middle Eastern, Sushi, Pizza, most owned by recent immigrants or their kids), businesses (a florist, opthalmalogist, karate studio — the former in the neighborhood for at least 20-30 years), no more hookers and drug dealers — and the city announced that they were taking almost the entire district to build a school. You have to put schools someplace, but New Haven is filled with vacant blocks. It’s not right to let small business owners and local homeowners clean up a neighborhood and then just take it away from them once they’ve done the dirty work. (Fortunately, people became so rabid that city coucil is now “studying” the matter, but they had given the shop owners just a few months to relocate).
And don’t even get me started on Lakewood, Illinois.
posted by Anna on January 15th, 2004 at 5:54 pmOops. Sorry, not Lakewood, Illinois. Lakewood, Ohio.
posted by Anna on January 15th, 2004 at 5:57 pmA LOT of downtown Ypsi’s land lords are holding out for higher rents, because they think the influx of “new / young / hip” (”New-Ypsi”) renters will raise the market. Kind of a Catch 22 because these new people will only come if it stays cheap like cheap (”Old Ypsi”).
Things like Water St are moving too slow for all these absentee owners apparently.
Real Rent: I personally know at least 2 business renting in the $1.50 / SF range - or less!
posted by Leighton on January 15th, 2004 at 6:23 pmEminent domain, like the cowbell, can be used for forces of good or evil.
posted by Brandon on January 15th, 2004 at 9:31 pmOk, rent stuff, Leighton, when you talk $/sqft, generally they quote it in a year long not month long. If you know someone paying $1.50/sqft per year then they have some kind that is just outside the normal realm of doing buisness, mafia type deal or something. Now if they only have to pay that as payment for mortgage on the property that would be different, but rent, I just cant believe that.
posted by Just a Voice on January 15th, 2004 at 9:45 pmHis comment doesn’t make sense. If there are already “well-known” jewelry & upscale women’s clothing stores there, then renting to another one is also more of the same. Whatever.
posted by Laura on January 15th, 2004 at 10:18 pmBrandon,
Cowbell. Thanks for starting my day off on the right foot. Cow jokes never get old.
posted by todd on January 16th, 2004 at 8:36 amI didn’t realize that cowbells could be used for evil…..(?)
posted by Anna on January 16th, 2004 at 9:34 amThere is commercial space a block or so off Main St. for as low as $8/sq. ft per year. It isn’t on the street level, though, which is what they were talking about.
posted by Michael McClatchey on January 16th, 2004 at 10:54 amAnna,
Well, a lack of cowbell can be considered evil, anyway.
“More cowbell!”
posted by Brandon on January 16th, 2004 at 12:57 pmDoes this mean we’re bound to lose the Ark and the Bird of Paradise to higher rent values (and upscale women’s clothing stores like the unfortunately named “Poshh”)? The Ark and the Bird aren’t my favorite musical venues, but AA is already becoming anemic in this area. A vibrant and diverse live music scene is one of the most important, if not THE most important, aspects of a town’s culture. I mean, I like basement shows as much as the next guy, but do we really want to drive talent underground like that?
posted by Speicus on January 16th, 2004 at 6:57 pmSpeicus, I was wondering about that too.
posted by Laura on January 16th, 2004 at 7:17 pmLosing The Bird is likely; the Ark less so. And The Bird has done plenty to put itself out of business. The only time that someone decent comes there, it’s a $25 ticket, and every other night it’s fuckin’ Ron Brooks again. But hell, even the Firefly had to get rid of the Avant nights…
posted by js on January 16th, 2004 at 7:50 pmjs
Speicus,
There is zero chance that Mr. Spears purchased this building with his eye towards simply collecting rent from the existing tenants at their current rate for years to come.
My personal guess would be that all of these businesses are at risk, but would venture that it is Zydeco that is the most likely to change since they have the largest square footage, and are also owned by a restaurant “group” that could easily pull up stakes and move elsewhere should the rent prove unfavorable.
If you are really curious, I would imagine that you could find a volunteer from the Ark who could tell you how long their lease is for, and that will give you an answer.
Spears is certainly no robber baron (nice man in my estimation), but he will look for his roi on this project.
Just a guess.
posted by todd on January 17th, 2004 at 9:03 amZydeco also has a habit of paying for their ads late, and ringing up pretty impressive outstanding balances (in the thousands), though they’ve always managed to pay them off after a bit.
posted by js on January 17th, 2004 at 1:49 pmjs
Don’t you think people could stop being lazy and walk to State and Liberty for a Starbucks?
posted by eston on January 17th, 2004 at 2:05 pmEston’s right. After all, people manage to fulfill their Jimmy John’s cravings without having one on every cor….Oh, no, wait. I was thinking of something else.
As a fairly unrelated point, I noticed today that Zingerman’s Roadhouse is in a building that used to be a Bill Knapps. I’m sure everyone else was already aware of this, but it’s noteworthy anyways.
posted by Murph on January 17th, 2004 at 11:39 pmMurph, have you been to that new-fangled Zingerman’s Roadhouse? Honestly, I don’t want to try it. I had a friend that said (quote) “they treat their employees like shit”.
posted by eston on January 19th, 2004 at 2:38 ameston,
I know people who work at Zingerman’s, and I’ve heard otherwise. I’ve eaten at the Roadhouse, and while the food’s very good, it ain’t cheap - just like all of Zingeman’s other businesses.
speicus,
Unfortunately, the live music scene in Arbor/Ypsi has been withering away for some time now. Rick’s hasn’t had anything good in years, Leopold Bros. was forced to stop having live music by the neighbors, the Del Rio closed, the Tap Room will stop having live music after February, etc. I see no prospects for any turnaround either.
posted by tom on January 19th, 2004 at 10:27 amRe: the Zingerman’s Roadhouse
Most of the food is good and some of it is disappointingly mediocre. The prices are too high to justify. I had a friend order a medium burger they served well done, and it wasn’t great. $20+ for grits? $15+ for Mac & Cheese (granted, this is actually GOOD Mac & Cheese) … The Deli is also highly priced, but the quality is more consistent and, if you order the larger sandwich, it’s difficult to eat more than half which means you get two almost reasonably priced meals out of it…
posted by sst on January 19th, 2004 at 12:03 pmTom, I don’t think the AA-Ypsi scene is withering. There are a few less venues, and the center of gravity seems to be shifting east, but there are a lot of good bands playing in these parts.
I think Zingerman’s like everywhere, has people who love working there and those who don’t. I suppose it depends what department you are in, who is supervising you, and indeed what your temperment is like. I’ve heard the same thing about the Blue Nile’s work environment recently (not to mention completely opposing opinions on the food). You’d probably need a comprehensive survey to get a real handle the state of a workplace, not hearsay from isolated sources.
posted by Brandon on January 19th, 2004 at 12:48 pmAs for Zingerman’s food, I went to the deli once to see what all the hype was about, and found that you can get a better sandwich at Amer’s for $3 less…
posted by Brandon on January 19th, 2004 at 12:49 pmMost of the data that I ahve read about university and their economic effect on the area focuses on high tech spinoff. However, sicne people move to college towns for quality of life, arts, culture, etc., and since universities are the ones that provide them (directly or indirectly) for college towns, I think we can argue for a strong economic plus for a good university in a small to medium sized city. (Richard FLorida also was a section on this in his book, but I have serious reservations with his whole thesis. I mean, he thinks Phapel Hill is cooler than New Orleans.)
posted by Lucky Jackson on January 19th, 2004 at 2:06 pmYeah, the rent deals( with storage) for two of these places in downtown Ypsi works out to around $3 / sf per year. Actual sales space is closer to $7. But triple that for new leases.
Z Roadhouse is too overpriced for the style, but it might survive with the name / exclusivity alone.
Music shifts in general. Venues either have to shift with it or relocate, I suppose.
posted by Leighton on January 20th, 2004 at 11:13 amLucky,
Your reservations of Florida’s book might be pretty well founded. A critique of the book found that Richard Florida’s 10 most “creative” cities generally underperformed the US economy while the 10 least “creative” cities generally out performed the the US economy. That’s enough to cast some serious doubts on Florida’s thesis. Here’s my source:
http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_1_the_curse.html
posted by James on January 20th, 2004 at 4:09 pmI think skepticism re: all this “Creative Class” stuff is a healthy attitude. Florida’s argument seems to be that as the economy shifts towards emphasizing R&D/high-tech and highly-skilled workers, the workers themselves can move fluidly from employer to employer and city to city, but that their decisions are guided significantly by their perceptions of the lifestyles that particular places offer. I’m not sure he’s arguing that they strictly follow the money - you don’t hear lots of raves about places like Atlanta, Dallas, or San Bernardino County that did quite well in the 90s and beyond. But he throws out a lot of generalizations in the attempt to be provocative - obviously not everyone wants to work an unstructured job in a web start-up, eat sushi and go clubbing every night, and spend every free moment rock-climbing and kayaking, but he really makes it sound that way. That he passingly mentions AA as being a “creative-class” place only further suggests spotty research methods.
posted by Nick on January 20th, 2004 at 4:31 pmUmmm….I think he meant the most creative place in Michigan. He may have something there, although, the last time I was there, ten years ago, the area around Wayne State seemed like a great palce to live.
posted by Lucky Jackson on January 21st, 2004 at 11:41 amUmmm….I think he meant the most creative place in Michigan. He may have something there, although, the last time I was there, ten years ago, the area around Wayne State seemed like a great palce to live.
posted by Lucky Jackson on January 21st, 2004 at 11:41 amI lived on the edges of Wayne State for three years. I was even thinking of buying a house there (4 bedroom brick house near Matthaei athletic center, just off Trumbull, $3,000).
But though Detroit does have some urban amenities (24 hour bus system, major art museum, cheap ethnic restaurants and live music), it’s tough to live there. The hopelessness and poverty of the place gets to you. The smell of burning buildings in the air almost every night, and the abandoned, boarded-up, burned out structures (often formerly beautiful) in every streetscape. The casual nastiness of the city, the university, bus drivers, even passing strangers. Inch-thick plexiglass between you and every store clerk and bank teller. Fear and hatred from white suburbanites.
Worse yet, none of this has worked to create much of a sense of community among Detroiters, who if anything remain more divided and mutually suspicious than ever. Living there was lonely and isolating. In the end, I left with great relief.
posted by Larry Kestenbaum on January 22nd, 2004 at 5:37 pm