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By the Rivers Gently Flowing, Illinois, Illinois

Two University of Illinois professors are concerned that state budget cuts may consign the institution to a “degree in mediocrity,” leaving it hard-pressed to keep its standing among other prestigious Big Ten schools like Michigan and Wisconsin. Not to worry.

43 Responses to “By the Rivers Gently Flowing, Illinois, Illinois”

Some rich comments from the Guv:

“We’ve got a great university system and we want to make sure it remains great, but just like any other entity, if you can’t cut 5 percent a year, you are not doing your job,” Granholm said Tuesday in an interview with Booth Newspapers.

Not sure I follow that.

“Average citizens look at all the new buildings and weight rooms and the great capital improvements on campus and say, ‘How can this be? How can they afford to do all of this under such tight budget constraints that they’ve got to raise tuition to the extent they have?’ It’s a very good question,” she said.

Um, if someone could point me to all these things I’d be interested in checking them out.
posted by Nick on December 17th, 2003 at 9:49 pm
Hmmm I graduated from the U of I and except for a few departments (engineering in particular), it is a pretty mediocre school full of spoiled brats from the Chicago suburbs.
posted by gyc on December 17th, 2003 at 10:22 pm
Hey, Chicago suburb brats have feelings too, even if we are from the Long Island of the Midwest.
posted by ann arbor is overrated on December 17th, 2003 at 10:26 pm
That Life Sciences compound does look a bit insane. But isn’t that already paid for?

Will all these tuition increases make UoM even more exclusive to lower income students? (Is UoM the most expensive public university already?)
posted by Leighton on December 18th, 2003 at 8:34 am
Good old Governor Jenny. I didn’t like that 5% comment by her, either.

Leighton, the university has been working to update older buildings for quite some time. In addition to the LSI project (which is what, 5 new buildings?), there is the two renovation projects on Medical Campus that I have noticed(right smack dab in the middle of campus, and the road project on Medical Center Drive), the Hill Auditorium project, the LSA renovation project, as well as smaller projects like the extension of dedicated fiber optic cables from central campus to south campus that tore up State Street for most of the Summer. The university is improving like mad, which I consider a good thing, though obviously Jenny doesn’t. There are too many buildings on campus that ARE too old, and need renovations (I work in one).

I don’t know what is next to be built, though, or what is part of next years capital improvement budget.

I really enjoyed Mike Boulus’ statement: ” “If they want the University of Michigan to be South Dakota State, they need to tell us that. Then we’ll have a different discussion.”
posted by Jeremy on December 18th, 2003 at 8:51 am
Aren’t UM’s rec facilities horrendous? I think all the facilities just got new weight and cardio equipment for the first time in about 30 years. Not to mention the buildings themselves are consistantly crowded and not exactly state of the art. I’ve heard the main rec facility at UofWisconsin is awesome and I’ve been to the one at Case Western and it’s very nice. Do they expect UM students to just become fat slobs?
posted by James on December 18th, 2003 at 9:52 am
Things are tough everywhere in higher education this year. Here we have a $30M deficit and they’ve asked all departments to come back with a 5% budget cut for each of the next two years. Our department just had an emergency meeting this week where we decided — no joke — to cut out cookies for the faculty meetings (among lots of other things that will hurt).

Everyone keeps saying, “But _ has such a HUGE endowment” (it’s in the multiple billions). The problem is that the max you can spend from an endowment for it to stay healthy and not start shrinking is 5% per year.

Despite the fact that things are tough everywhere, Michigan would be making a terrible mistake to skimp on the UM. Taxes, tuition, whatever it takes. Tuition may be high for a state school, but what you get for your money is so much better than most of the state schools out there. If not in facilities, in opportunities, connections, open-doors and access to fabulous ivy-league-caliber faculty (the opportunities are there, you just have to be resourceful).

If you cut budgets too much, you’re going to make it hard for faculty to get their jobs done — much of which involves getting those very profitable grants which make the university go ’round. If you make it hard for them to get grants, you lose the overhead, and the faculty get concerned about their careers and start looking elsewhere. They leave, the university loses the grants that they already have and the grants that they might have already gotten, and the students will suffer even higher tuition.

If you don’t care think you’d get your $8K/year worth (or whatever in-state tuition is), and would rather have nice facilities and an adequate but not stellar education, there are plenty of other colleges and universities in Michigan that fill that role.
posted by Anna on December 18th, 2003 at 11:51 am
I think that there are many facilities—the EMBA housing facility comes to mind—that outsiders see as fluff. And I will say that at each and every lecture I have given at the B-school, they have had Zingerman’s catering for all to enjoy. Not cheap.

I know, I know, the B-school is different. But I promise you that taxpayers do not see this. I will say that when I lectured at the SNRE that they didn’t even offer me a glass of water. So there ya go.

On another completly ridiculous Granholm note, my brother and just asked to “panel” a Cool-cities forum with the AA Chamber of Commerce in March. Not kidding. I wonder if they will be dissapointed if I show up in my yeast-encrusted overalls?

As a result of being a representative of cool, we will begin a velvet-rope policy at our door. If you haven’t been in a movie or a Gap commercial in the past 12 months, you will not be allowed in…..and please bring two head-shots with you agent’s phone number on the back. I have also removed our varied jukebox selections and replaced them with 100 copies of Interpol’s Turn on the Bright Lights.

I am sure that other cool things will follow…
posted by todd on December 18th, 2003 at 11:56 am
If you could stage a White Stripes-von Bondies brawl, I hear that’s cool too.
posted by ann arbor is overrated on December 18th, 2003 at 12:15 pm
To add to Anna’s point, it’s also a really good idea for MI taxpayers as a whole (U-M-involved or not) to think of support for the univ. as a good thing. This is the economic future of the state. Without home-grown people with sufficient education to work in a skilled-labor economy, this region isn’t going to make it. Regardless of your opinions on state-school bureaucracy (or on the social skills of out-of-state undergrads), passing on a highly educated population is a bad way to go.
posted by Nick on December 18th, 2003 at 12:18 pm
Somewhat in defense of our governor, she is faced with the ongoing phase-in of ruinous tax cuts left to her by her predecessor, and a legislative majority that is deeply hostile to supporting higher education or reversing tax any cuts.

Meanwhile, the federal government is pursuing a sadistic “starve the beast” policy of bankrupting state governments. Every state is in deep trouble. Without some major change at the federal level, “frills” like tax-supported higher education are not likely to survive in their present form.
posted by Larry Kestenbaum on December 18th, 2003 at 12:28 pm
I think it’s important too, Nick, but it’s hard to sell higher ed. funding to MI taxpayers as an investment when grads flee the state as soon as they are able.
posted by Hillary on December 18th, 2003 at 1:10 pm
As an addendum to Hillary’s point: Let us hope that Todd is successful in training AA to be a cool city. Since New Yorkers are watching AA so carefully, once the velvet ropes come out, who knows what will happen!
posted by Anna on December 18th, 2003 at 1:38 pm
“If they want the University of Michigan to be South Dakota State, they need to tell us that.”

Quite entertaining, and revealing. Since moving to Ann Arbor nearly 5 long years ago, I’ve come to realize how defensive Ann Arborians and University of Michiganders are about the facts: that Ann Arbor is just a scrape in the dirt of a backward and impoverished state, and that the University of Michigan is in fact a public institution in Michigan and not a private one in Palo Alto or Cambridge. “Harvard of the Midwest,” indeed!

When Lee Bollinger was gunning for the Harvard job, a letter to the editor of the Ann Arbor News said that he would surely stay in Ann Arbor because the U of M football stadium was bigger and there were more bookstores in Ann Arbor than Cambridge. I’ll give the nod to the stadium. But even counting the Little Professor, I have my doubts about the bookstores. And then Bollinger goes to Columbia, and another letter writer can’t imagine preferring New York City to Ann Arbor. Hello!

It’s this posture of defensive denial of reality that gives Ann Arbor its Ann Arbor Transportation Authority (why not the Port Authority of Ann Arbor and be done with it?), an organization that runs nearly empty buses over the broken and potholed streets of the “city.” And now Ann Arbor is a “cool” city. Granted, we do have a gay bar, some mediocre but expensive restaurants, and the Michigan Theatre. But if Ann Arbor is so cool, why does every touring performer who hits Hill Auditorium or our other entertainment venues get a standing ovation? Please! And our Mayor Hieftje refers to the “European” flavor of Ann Arbor’s “dining and entertainment district.” Is that Main Street, as quintessentially midwestern an avenue as one could imagine?
posted by A Citizen on December 18th, 2003 at 1:40 pm
Leighton- As kinda a side note, the NY times ran a story on a study that points out that higher tuition often means more lower income kids going to state schools, because they’re more likely to get tuition waivers on the backs of those who can afford to pay more than their way.
But I doubt that works during budget deficit time. This should be a pretty big incentive for all those kids in higher ed to get out and fucking vote in 2004, to get the Republicans out of office, so that we can (yes, yes, I know it hurts) raise taxes to pay for the services that this state needs. Doesn’t Granholm realize that part of getting the cool cities is getting the students in? If there are cuts to higher ed, it hurts the chances of that happening.
Though I will say that I have less sympathy for U-M than I do for, say, Central, where they already get a much lower portion of state cash than what they’re due. I would lobby for more cuts to U-M than other state schools, just because the proportionality is way out of whack (and the argument that we should have one great school and a bunch of shitty ones should only work if everyone in the state is guaranteed a better shot at UM).
js
posted by js on December 18th, 2003 at 1:58 pm
I think you are totally, totally wrong, JS. UM (and Michigan State, to a lesser degree) are the only schools that can attract big tuition bucks from out of state and big federal grants and big federal and private contracts. Central Michigan isn’t attracting any of those things.

You cut the budget, allow the faculty members to slip through UM’s fingers (AA is certainly not a selling point so give them a reason and they will run like hell), and out-of-state students will take their big tuition dollars elsewhere and I’m sure that the National Institutes of Health and the Office of Naval Research, and the Carnegie Endowment for the Arts, and the Howard Hughes Foundation, and the National Science Foundation and General Motors and and and will not come knocking. By cutting UM�s budget in favor of the centrals and northerns of the state, you will destroy the UM by sending its more talented students running along with its faculty who will in turn take their grants with them. You will have, essentially, another shitty school.

As for making the UM more accessible, that would be very difficult if you’re talking about financially more accessible. In-state UM students are already paying very much less than it costs to educate them. They are not only being subsidized by the tax-payers, but they are being subsidized by all those grants that the faculty pull in. Not to mention alumni donations.

As for making UM more accessible to undergrads by lowering admissions standards for in-state students, I’m afraid there’s little room for that without making the brighter and more motivated students want to gouge their eyes out.
posted by Anna on December 18th, 2003 at 2:28 pm
If AA is looking to me for cool training, then the situation is completly hopeless.

I stopped caring about what was cool a long, long time ago.
posted by todd on December 18th, 2003 at 3:55 pm
Much agreement with A Citizen’s 1st paragraph. Service to the community does seem very shockingly lacking at U-M, compared with how much the Univ of Pittsburgh and UNC-Chapel Hill do for their respective communities. U-M does have a private-U mentality (tho of course it lacks the money), which might have a bit to do with why taxpayers don’t see much value in supporting it, and why people don’t get engaged enough in the community to want to stay here when they’re done. Just some thoughts.
posted by Nick on December 18th, 2003 at 4:24 pm
Anna- Proportionate to enrollment, U-M and MSU get far more per student than ANY other school in Michigan. And while it’s nice to think that no other school in the state does anything worthwhile (which is certainly what the U would tell you), Eastern is the nation’s #1 educator of teachers, and Michigan Tech (along with Northern) are very respectable engineering schools. If there are across the board cuts, instead of proportional cuts, the state universities will serve less in-state students, which is their mission. Believe it or not, the mission of higher ed is not purely to get grants.
And, despite your obviously unbiased opinion, people do seem to stay in Ann Arbor. Some even like it around here. (By the way, again, Anna, where exactly are you that’s so great?)
So, yes, U-M will suffer, no matter what the budget cuts are. But is we’re trimmin’ fat, let’s go after the place with the highest paid public university president in the country, huh?
js
posted by js on December 18th, 2003 at 5:23 pm
JS, Sadly, you have completely missed my point. My point was not that the entire world revolves around getting grants; my point was that grants make the University’s high level of academic excellence possible and they bring a lot of money — millions upon millions of dollars — into the local economy. They create untold numbers of jobs, they create a need for supplies and office furniture, a need for transportation, they bring consultants in who stay in the Ann Arbor Inn and eat in local restaurants; they contribute to Ann Arbor in ways you probably have never even stopped to consider.

Furthermore, they make it possible to have a good art school. They make it possible to have good Shakespeare professors. They make it possible for philosophers to sit around philosophizing — all good things in my estimation. Big out-of-state tuition dollars and big federal science grants allow in-state students to pay less tuition for what is a very excellent education by most standards (though admittedly not as great as some schools. If you would like to pay $37K a year, and think you have the smarts, grades and scores to get in where I teach, fine — actually, the ivies are truly need-blind because they have such fabulous financial aid packages — do you think they are able to offer those financial aid packages by being mediocre? Um, no. They put out fabulously smart people who are well-educated and end up being very successful, love their school and give back. That and those grant dollars from the faculty who aren’t overburdened so they have time to do research and write those grants that you don’t think are very important).

EMU may have a good teaching school (indeed, I have friends that have gotten teaching degrees there but “nation’s finest”?) I think funding teachers’ education is an extremely important enterprise; if you could cut UM’s budget by a very tiny fraction of a percent and subsidize tuition for people who teach at least two years after school, or institute some sort of loan-forgiveness, that seems to me a much better idea than completely caniblizing UM to more highly fund the centrals and northerns of the state.

Finally, letting Bollinger go was the biggest mistake the regents ever made; one hopes they will compensate the president to a level fitting the responsibilities and skills necessary to run a 50,000+ person organization with an operating budget the size of UM’s.

And as for where I am that’s so great, that would be two hours to a decent ski area, five minutes from the beach, and 2 hours in one direction to a major city, a little over an hour in the other direction to another major city, and some of the prettiest geography in the country, in a town with a lot of interesting, diverse people. Oh, and my house house? The one I bought less than a year out of school? That cost less than half of what I would have paid in A2.
posted by Anna on December 18th, 2003 at 6:09 pm
Anna- if they made it possible to have a good art school, the U would have a good art school. They don’t, no matter what Bryan says… (And the philosophy program is pretty weak too. Lots of Pragmatists and flouncy Continentals).
Furthermore, while running a 50,000 person organization is no doubt a great task, wouldn’t you say that it’s less important than, say, the governor’s job? If we’re paying by importance, wouldn’t that come first?
No, not in your world. Instead of seeking to do the most good with the money, in terms of helping the most people get an education, get jobs and make better lives for themselves, you’d rather spend the cash on overpaying the president and pretending that a University’s first priority is the pampering of its graduate students (as your experiences seem to have blinded you to the lives of the hoi polloi).
And yes, I have considered the impact of the University on my town. Far be it from me to stop you from condescending though. Carry on, Anna, oh Queen of the Ivies, who can’t even give a straight answer to where she lives. Perhaps they haven’t told you yet? You can look at the outside of any piece of mail addressed to you, you know, it does have the town listed.
Again, since you seem to have missed my point (must be your diet of crumpets, weakening your eyes): there are going to be budget cuts in this state. You know, the one you used to live in and now devote your time to complaining about. Those budget cuts are going to hurt public education. The amount of money cut from a lower-tier (MAC, if you will) school is going to hurt more than the proportional amount of money cut from a Big 10 school.
(And Anna, do please work on your quoting. I never said that EMU produced the nation’s finest teachers. I said that they were the number one school in educating teachers. There are more graduates of EMU teaching than of any other school, though the quality is debatable. And there is grant writing that happens there too, Anna, believe it or not).
Perhaps if you spent less time worrying about rank, and more worried about a quality education, you’d find yourself more able to commiserate with the commoners.
posted by js on December 18th, 2003 at 8:35 pm
I’m not sure how “pampering” grad students is part of this budget debate, unless you’re arguing that they should stop paying us. I mean, grad student salaries are fine, but they’re not going to put us out of touch with the hoi polloi any time soon. And it’s far from a given that educating the most people is the best outcome that a university can hope for. The University of Michigan - like the other state universities you mention - is a research institution. Imparting knowledge to undergrads (or grad students) is only part of its mission. Creating knowledge is the other part.
posted by ann arbor is overrated on December 18th, 2003 at 8:49 pm
No, I was making the rather spurious allegation that Anna is pampered. And yes, while creating knowledge is important, it’s just as important that people have access to that knowledge. Otherwise, it’s just another paper on whether Neoliberal Rationalist International Integrationism is a better framework for evaluating EU policies than Constructivist Marxism (which was the theme of the paper I turned in today)…
posted by js on December 18th, 2003 at 8:56 pm
(And of course, the conclusion is that they’re both equally valuable, dependent upon the situation that you’d like to evaluate).
posted by js on December 18th, 2003 at 8:57 pm
JS.

UMich Ann Arbor has been a top five philosophy deparment for the better part of the last 5 years….and this is coming from a philo/lit. major from G’town (we were, sigh, not ranked nearly as high by our peers…I thought it was a great program, though). If you noticed above, sadly, I showed that I can’t even spell “completely” correctly, so what the hell do I know about this stuff.

Of course, NO ONE likes continental philosophy. I was a Hegel man, top to bottom.
posted by todd on December 18th, 2003 at 9:01 pm
JS.

UMich Ann Arbor has been a top five philosophy deparment for the better part of the last 5 years….and this is coming from a philo/lit. major from G’town (we were, sigh, not ranked nearly as high by our peers…I thought it was a great program, though). If you noticed above, sadly, I showed that I can’t even spell “completely” correctly, so what the hell do I know about this stuff.

Of course, NO ONE likes continental philosophy. I was a Hegel man, top to bottom.
posted by todd on December 18th, 2003 at 9:01 pm
Ugh. Hegel? Heidegger’s hatred of Hegel is why I could get through Heidegger (well, and Keirkegaard hates that stuff too, so he was funny).
js
posted by js on December 18th, 2003 at 9:39 pm
Heidegger was a ninny. And you can tell him I said that.

Hegel finished his career by teaching high school kids in Tubingen, which, incidentally, is a sister city of Ann Arbor.

See how all of this fits neatly into a box?
posted by todd on December 18th, 2003 at 10:00 pm
Okay…now I feel like other people said they felt in the SSH/telnet discussion.

A German Studies friend of mine told me that Tubingen is the A2 of Germany.
posted by ann arbor is overrated on December 18th, 2003 at 10:23 pm
Heidegger was a Nazi, but got sour when they had him dig ditches.
It is weird how many “sister cities” Ann Arbor has around the globe, at least according to the sign when you’re coming into town on Plymouth… There’s like 8 of them….
posted by js on December 19th, 2003 at 8:48 am
posted by Anna on December 19th, 2003 at 9:12 am
Oh, and JS, if pampered means to you working my ass off 80 hours a week year after year, waiting tables (probably on you, at Seva) working for a contractor hanging drywall, painting and various other things, along with teaching undergrads and doing thousands of hours worth of high-tech research that will, by the way, have a positive impact on your life, then I guess you can say I’m pampered. Yep.
posted by Anna on December 19th, 2003 at 9:17 am
Finally, (so much rich material in your last missive!) about my quoting skills: Not all of us can be journalists at such important publications as the Current. XO, A.
posted by Anna on December 19th, 2003 at 9:26 am
I’m sorry, Anna, I guess I hadn’t been paying enough attention to your East Coast toadying, and missed the New Haven/Conneticut thing. Mea culpa.
As for Seva, being a vegetarian in town, I’ve gone there a couple of times. Outside of the Del, it’s known for the worst and slowest service in town, so I guess you have something to be proud of there.
As far as the Current dig, well, it’s a living. If you do a little searching, you might even find out that I work for other national publications. But hey, I’m just honored to have such an educated readership, what with Yalies taking note and all.
(See how I tied that all up in one post?)
js
posted by js on December 19th, 2003 at 11:18 am
JS — Ahh, yes, I could probably figure out a lot about you with a little searching. However, the difference is that I’m not very interested. Love, Anna
posted by Anna on December 19th, 2003 at 11:38 am
No, much better to complain about your former town on the internet. I understand, Anna. Keep up the hard work.
js
posted by js on December 19th, 2003 at 12:04 pm
You are so right. My time would be much better spent tracking down your name, criminal history, property and tax records, social security number, and home address. Love, Anna
posted by Anna on December 19th, 2003 at 12:17 pm
I don’t see how all this sniping is going to get Bill Knapps back in Annarbour.
posted by Boris on December 19th, 2003 at 12:59 pm
Boris,
Clearly, all the arguing is a result of our fall from grace.
posted by Aaron on December 19th, 2003 at 1:14 pm
God, yes. Even I’m bored with this. Boris, say something funny.
posted by Anna on December 19th, 2003 at 1:20 pm
Boris, if this sniping will keep Bill Knapps from returning, I’ll never let a comment of hers go by again.
And if arguing with you will spell the demise of the Old Country Buffet, well, I hear you secretly love the new Whole Foods.
Now, if only there was a way to kill Bob Evans…
js
posted by js on December 19th, 2003 at 1:59 pm
Happy New Year all. My head hurts from so reading so many diverse opinions on such a colorful range of topics in one string. But I do commend one and all; it’s a friendly riot. I think the one thing that looms large in my imagination because of all the vocabulary bombardment is….What this town needs is a good politician like, well, like Huey P. Long. I think Mary Sue is a choice he would approve.

Also, if you are vegetarian and thinking of a good meal you could worse than to drive to Udipi in Farmington Hills-lunch buffet for cheap-great kitchen and she even sells a cookbook. Or when in Sydney hit Metro-it’s just a block off Oxford Street, Darlinghurst and has a line every night-plus you have to share your table with “come who may”-which can be very friendly. Best vegetarian food bar none, in the world. Dirt cheap too.

Food eroticism isn’t the same as food porn is it? Food Terrorism is something else yet again-or maybe not. FT has something to do with free-range, organically enhanced, pre-chewed, Kosher certified, high-fiber, strained prunes from contented cows–I think. Available from Zingerman’s online or at one of our local stores for only thirty-five dollars for 100 ML. Be the first in your neighborhood, dorm gymnasium or uni golf course. Get your card punched at every purchase and when you have accumulated 15 punches you will receive an 8.3579% discount on your next purchase-our online newsletter, which includes valuable coupons and a list of our upcoming prune signings.
posted by oof! on January 1st, 2004 at 1:08 am
It is dangerous to confuse children with angels.
posted by Finn Judy on January 26th, 2004 at 12:10 pm